Logo and branding by Leo G. Thanks to the team at LAist Studios, including Kristen Hayford, Taylor Coffman, Kristen Muller, and Leo G. Servant of Pod is a production of LAist Studios. Our deep live on really china understand, what's happening here, like what changed, and why and. imagining the series. And then when I heard the tape, as a grown woman, when I heard him talk about this woman whom I have been loving, who has become a sort of cultural deity, who has become this way home for so many of us, this sacred symbol, when I heard him talk about her the way he did, it was so cutting. Just oh there's like this evolution of. Un cuarto de siglo despus de su muerte, Selena est arrasando en internet. Not even. [Laughter]. The link in the show notes, the good life project is supported by a script so between the great resignation, quiet quitting and all these trends. And it may sound trivial, but what that episode showed me is that butt politics, body politics, is ultimately a story of fetishizing Black features, obsessing over Black features, while dehumanizing Black people. [Laughter] That's what it is, Nick! The series weaves Marias personal story as a queer, first-generation Mexican immigrant with cultural analysis, history and politics to explore how, 25 years after her death, Selena remains an unparalleled vessel for understanding Latino identity and American belonging. I discovered Selena when I was 7 years old. She was that talented, ass, a little girl and she was-, the time from the time she was twelve years old. I have to know that this is like a poetic, get into a story and that they're gonna write this red with us and. Previously Ben was the host of the national daily programMarketplace Techfrom American Public Media and Marketplace, reaching two million listeners around the country. I, like you, just described that that second, that the said where you're talking about, the role of her dad. In the premiere episode of "Anything for Selena," host Maria Garcia explores how Selena helped Maria find her own place in the world. I didn't expect to be. A 2016 video that Tesla used to promote its self-driving technology was staged to show capabilities like stopping at a red light and accelerating at a green light that the system did not . The creators of Anything for Selena take listeners behind the scenes for a look at the making of the podcast. 00:40:44 - NPR and Futuro Studios present The Last Cup, a limited series about soccer and the immigrant experience. Kim Kardashian alborot internet con su trasero y Jen Selter, una mujer blanca y juda de Long Island, se ha autoproclamado la belfie queen (una combinacin de las palabras butt, que es trasero en ingls, y selfie) en Instagram. As you said, it is Mexican-Americans just saying like, "Hey, we're here and you're hurting us. If someone is life and her powerful decision to centre the universality of struggle and joy expression and the complexity of love, relationships and power in the conversation I. so deeply john and a move by this body of work and was so excited to dive into maria's life, the story. On March 31, 1995, nine-year-old Maria Garcia came home to find her mother glued to the TV, tears rolling down her rosy cheeks. Maria explores how the internet has become a place where fans celebrate and remember Selena, as well as grapple with the void she left behind. But I'm here, it's a gift. how little maria that was deep inside of me, ok like it's ok to be yourself. ===Excerpt: Anything for Selena, Episode 4: Big Butt Politics===, Jennifer Lopez turned the fashion world on its ear with a bottom that shot her straight to, She came with two limos: one for her, one for her ass. Servant of Pod is written and hosted by me, Nick Quah. I I dunno if everyone's affected that way, but I know I certainly am it sounds like you are as well. Do you remember that some shore and like ninety seven, ninety eight mainstream media, every magazine, every television show every late night show was talking about jailer? You know I had to. when it was time to pick a career, I thought of, the vision journalism because it's the form. But it's also often the first step on a path to freedom and in the new memoir quitting why I left my job to live a life of freedom, former white house, aide political commentator and bt personality. But there were moments, for example, that were, there were some some folks who thought we, too much time on the clear. Episodio 1: Selena y Yo (Espaol) Al crecer a lo largo de la frontera entre Estados Unidos y Mxico, Mara Garca se sinti dividida entre sus dos identidades como mexicana y sstadounidense. Wait like I love that the core of what I'm doing, but I can't do it in the, I knew that I wanted to keep telling stories. You know, it felt like these old wounds. Tras el debut de la serieSelenaen Netflix, algunos fans sealaron que la cantante haba sido blanqueada en ese show. When I talk about salinas dad and my own dad, you know. "It has this unforgettable smell when it rains," the voice says. That is expense. So you you make this moved up to public radio and one of the most iconic public radio stations had been around for a long time where. I couldn't separate myself as a person, from my role as a journalist here and I had to sort of clean with the listeners, and I think that, parts of myself that are scary for me to show you. American networks and Mexican programming aired the same top story. You emotionally and part of part of the color in the text. She goes, "Well, honey, tell her that if she wants to see a bottom, I'll show her my, bottom." was caught stealing money from salina salinas, is your father. It's like boulders. I tall buildings in new york city, there's something so powerful that draws me in to just, even if I'm not out. Yeah. Growing up along the US-Mexico border, Maria Garcia felt torn between her two identities as Mexican and American. Maria Garcia was 9 years old and living on the U.S.-Mexico border when Selena was murdered. Now, it's completely save to be mexican now in certain in all settings that you want to be in you don't have to, camouflage yourself anymore, to stay, save and its. Became the driving creative force and on air host of these stunning podcast series anything for Selina, which was named, apple pod cache of the year and twenty twenty one and produce with, two Torah studios and npr member station, w b you are, and for the first time in her fifteen plus years in journalism, she did something that broke one of the fundamental rules of reporting. Web design by Andy Cheatwood and the digital and marketing teams at Southern California Public Radio. That I saw somebody like that ascend in American society, and ascend in a way that was still connected to her roots, ascend without compromise, and that was incredibly moving for me, and it stayed with me. There is now a whole generation of people who have come of age, like me, who have experienced these moments with Selena. There is no such thing as coming to a story from no place at all. They stay with you, and they inform the career paths you take, and they inform the relationships you build. You know. not a ninety. La bsqueda de Mara la lleva a Abraham Quintanilla, el padre de Selena Quintanilla. In the premiere episode of Anything for Selena, host Maria Garcia explores how Selena helped Maria find her own place in the world. Kim Kardashian broke the internet with her butt and Jen Selter, a white Jewish woman from Long Island is the self-proclaimed belfie queen (butt selfie) of Instagram. You know, I think, so important to have this folks around you, yes, to help reflect back and, and then is also examining what is their lands like? A lot of people have told it the way that they wanted it taught. But also, do you think that relationship between white and non-white culture has changed at all since that moment in the 90s? On the podcast Anything for Selena, Apple Podcasts' Show of the Year of 2021, Maria Garca combines rigorous reporting with impassioned storytelling to honor Selena's legacy. It comes from a very specific lands. the attention and the praise that jailer dead, and I wanted to investigate why and- and I really. Selena was on the other side of the border, Selena had been afforded a whole new life, but at the end of the day, there was this disregard--the same disregard--for her life, too. I knew right away this as this was one of the episodes that I immediately neo. You can find more of Juan Diegos work onL.A. TacoandLatino Rebels. I've never seen anything like that. In fact, it's sort of disk up. At Marketplace Ben also conceptualized and launched APMs premier digital-first podcast,Codebreaker, in partnership with Business Insider. In this episode, Maria analyzes why Selenas brownness is an essential part of her legacy and reflects on how the exploration of Selenas race led Maria to revelations about her own identity. After that, she transitioned to arts and culture reporting and narrative radio storytelling. This is a collective experience. Yeah, I have a large rear, I guess, for the norm, but for me, it's normal, 'cause I grew up. like brand new to me, like, oh my god, I am not going to be with this little human. So you be, the character and the story, and I'm so curious about this, because the coming, really drummed ensuing journalism like you are my story like the your job is to be as currently unbiased down the middle as you possibly can be, and then you're working in a very well established. That's been around for, releases these chemicals. I have. You feel like you're accepted by wherever you are for you. what led to that end, the lake late fierce resistance from her dad the illegal tell really powerfully in the pond cas but her huh, during this whole winter time, and you knew, when and found him and were able to arrange a sit down with them, and this was in the middle of the endemic at this point. And it was the very first time that I saw somebody who resembled my community, who resembled my family, who resembled those of us who were in the middle. A couple months later, it sounds like certainly back and saying you know, it was actually married and the story of like. Into these topics in very cool and unusual way through the lens of the life of the iconic performer silly, kinda near and the impact she had not just on marine life, but on tens of millions around the world even decades after her tragic passing at a young age and also not because Maria or for that matter, any of those millions new silly that personally, but because, that is an informed the way maria and those millions saw themselves, their sense of homeless heritage community and the call to celebrate uniqueness and amber. Yeah! You know, identity. I feel, for Asian-Americans, that that person was Bruce Lee, right? I wanted. In the end, its really a story about belonging, which we all need more of. It's almost like here that a dear friend my always is he can't read the label from inside the jar and, at like when the deeper you get into a story, especially one that you are just deeply invested in from my heart and mind and soul level. And I want to get to the bottom of why--why she's so resonant now, as resonant as she was a quarter-century ago. Maria became the driving creative force and on-air host of the stunning podcast series, Anything for Selena, which was named Apple Podcast's Show of the Year of 2021, and produced with Futuro Studios and NPR member station WBUR. I spent my early life in Mexico on the weekends and in the States during the week, and so I really came into consciousness very aware--hyper-aware--of the duality within me. Maria Garcia Twitter Managing EditorMaria Garcia was WBUR's Managing Editor and the creator of "Anything for Selena. Tesla. Selena is often called the Queen of Tejano music. In the 1990s, she brought this underdog genre to international heights. I feel so honored to be, like, your Selena doula! And then when she died, that was amplified astronomically. Yeah. A quarter century after her death, Selena is breaking the internet. She won't be shamed. In it, so powerful and you're. Selena Gomez seemingly clapped back at trolls criticizing her body after the 2023 Golden Globes. That, it turns out, is the power of authenticity, agency, and legacy. the fuller narrative of this entire series becomes it's like it's not just the story of this. Twenty five years later, Maria is on a quest to understand what it means to love, mourn and remember Selena. This episode was recorded live during a virtual event with WBUR Cityspace. The phone kept ringing. I mean both the colorado after spending a wife and a different type of mountains. Anything For Selena on Apple Podcasts 23 episodes On the podcast Anything for Selena, Apple Podcasts' Show of the Year of 2021, Maria Garca combines rigorous reporting with impassioned storytelling to honor Selena's legacy. I didn't even quite have the understanding, but I I recognise now. En el episodio de estreno de Anything for Selena, la conductora Mara Garca explora cmo Selena ayud a Mara a encontrar su propio lugar en el mundo. That's why, 25 years later, we are still so attached to her, because there is a hunger to see Latino joy, Latino effervescence--and in her case, brown pride, brown joy--there is a hunger to see that because there's not enough of it. She also explores the indelible mark she left on Latino identity and belonging, whether it's fatherhood, big-butt politics, and the fraught relationship with whiteness and language. Shipping is free when your order includes at least twenty five dollars of eligible items, so get a head start on your holiday shopping. You know her, artistry was the family business. The podcast examines the Tejano Queen's impact on race, politics and the cultures she inhabited. and experiences that led her into telling stories shining lights in championing ideas and ideals that matter to her and her community maria opens up about all of the above, as well as the intimate process of the unique story telling that took place in the creation of this pot guessers and takes me through the before and aftermath of, creating and launching anything for selina assessing the ways at it really transformed her and hopefully, whoever is turning it so excited to share this conversation with you, I'm gonna. new that was the first step and getting it right is just being. And that episode is about the fraught relationship between Latinidad and Blackness, through the lens of Selena. And I don't think her legacy has been done justice. It's been two years since, like I feel so saddle, in the direction of my life, and I I have done some of that rebuilding, just like when I met her father. Let us be human." In this intimate journey, Maria explores what Selena's legacy shows us about belonging in America. Chris shares a side of Selena we rarely get to see, and Maria learns about how romantic love was one of the ways Selena charted her own path. And so this has the cultural analysis of that, but it's also just a love letter from me to Selena, it is personal. I was blown away by all the different cabinet options they have and how easy it is to get your free design for your space at home to visit cabinets, to go dot com today and see why no one beach their prices or their transferable limited lifetime. I think I already am. And so I think that there was just a natural effervescence, and a natural talent, and she was a disciplined musician, and all of that came across on stage. And then, at such a formidable age, when I was sort of discovering my identity, I discovered Selena. And I don't think we've changed all that much. in a very lucky, no community, but this was in the nine days when assimilation was very, very, very praised, so, even though it was largely let tee no community, the assimilated, kids and the white kids were sort of at the top of the school hierarchy and there was a sort of shame in being exe. selena, laughter, latino, episode, life, story, border, mexican immigrants, world, identity, latinos, grew, died, culture, moment, personal, ascend, bottom, nick, talk, Jennifer Lopez, Abraham Quintanilla, Unknown, Howard Stern, Maria Garcia, Oprah Winfrey, Robin Quivers, Nick Quah, Jennifer Lopez, Chris Rock, Fred Norris. Her family, owned a restaurant in corpus, christie, taxes where her father would make her seeing there-, Family soon went bankrupt and lost the restaurant. and I was listening to colombia s- and I was you know, just absorbing my culture. [Laughter], I mean, I grew up in a whole other country. I had to imagine like there, There are certain like I need to. She discovered Selena Quintanilla the Mexican-American pop icon who proved she didnt have to choose. Selena Quintanilla may have built her career singing Spanish songs, but she didnt grow up speaking Spanish at home. And I talk about this in the episode, this was particularly difficult for me because it made me think so much of the women in Jurez, being from the border, the women in Ciudad Jurez in Mexico, who disappeared, many of them who worked for American corporations, in factories of American corporations across the border in Mexico, and how the world just did not seem to care about their deaths. This week, Nick speaks with Maria about Anything for Selena, her new series from WBUR and Futuro Studios, which revisits the legacy of Selena, with an ear to trying to unpack how, exactly, she. Poverty is often disguised. I had grown up with and sort of my working class home. Okay, Maria, how would you describe Anything for Selena? But then, something changed her life. ===Excerpt: Anything for Selena, Episode 2: Selena and Abraham"===. When the beginning, that was a moment where that there were four, of these moments. About his own marriage to Selina and relationships and love and heartbreak, You know what to. I think that's where this conversation really comes in because, I am one of those millions of people who see her as us like a sacred symbol. You know, I grew up, consuming every selina story out there, so you. it's an episode about the impact that the, way that Selina owned her voluptuous body and celebrated at the way that it-. And so I grew up thinking that it was imperative for me to assimilate, frankly, to just get through life. Well, what norm? regularly every week in every week and moving back and forth between areas and EL paso and curious about that. And it's about my theory that there's a direct historical lineage from Selena to the big butt culture of today, 25 years later, and it's a deep look at how we went, as a country, in a quarter-century, from aversion to big butts to obsession with big butts. And if I could just say, I don't think we talk enough about gratitude, and I just want to say, I will be so grateful. And it mattered a lot for mexican american and let de la girls like me, who were getting mixed messages about whether these features that we. Just see us. Get the New Yorker. Marias quest takes her to Abraham Quintanilla, Selena Quintanillas notoriously guarded father. The phone kept ringing. on the go so go. If Latinos were not being erased, they were being portrayed as gang members, or lost dropouts, or teenage moms. down a pine seen as not desirable, and I saw this shift. Every visit every day explore more new benefits at ikea, dash, usa, dot com, slash family offer valid starting nine one. There was more to be told she wanted to go deeper, to ask questions, explore issues and talk to people that had remained in the shadows for decades, then tell their fuller story: the real story, in a way that allowed all of us to step into it and learn from it and in no small way reconnect to ourselves and those around us summary. Hosted on Acast. Abraham admits he was a stringent, calculating father to his big-hearted daughter. His stories have appeared in The FADER,This American Life,Planet Money,NPR News,Studio 360and many other outlets. In the 25 years since her murder, Selenas image has taken on new meaning. I'm curious whether there were moments where you, folks say like this is what really needs to be, but there was something in your god that was saying now, to all just to give you some some context. For many people, the kitchen is the heart of the home and it's essential to have a space that really inspires good, cooking and memories in the making. But I got, show them to you, because you gotta know where I'm coming from, for you to understand how much I love Selina and why I love selena, then you kind of, gotta understand me a little bed and I think a lot of people. About The Show: On March 31, 1995, nine-year-old Maria Garcia came home to find her mother glued to the TV, tears rolling down her rosy cheeks. 1997 Chelly thanks you from the bottom of her heart. Oh, my goodness. oppositional reactions, indifferent cultures. On the contrary, she sort of highlighted them. What's what, at things been, wait for him and also what was his lands on, what life is like, He becomes really vulnerable and open in a way that sounds like you. because what I felt like you are also doing was inviting people in. She learned Spanish in the public eye, and her mistakes became some of her most famous and endearing moments. In particular, you know I've evolved a bet, I've come to realise that it's not it's, not that I am not, along a little bit and both but growing up. Why do you think that Selena broke through the way that she did? Now? A third-generation Mexican-American whose research and quest for belonging took her from the agricultural capital of California to the Ivy League by way of the Midwest and Moscow, Kristin holds advanced degrees in Russian studies from Harvard and the University of Missouri. You know- and I say this in the park ass, its other stuff found a nature like such, We need to start off with that. I thought there was a really interesting moment also at the very end you added in a couple of bonus episodes, one of them being. Journalist Mara Garca initially took notice of her talent when she was only seven years old. We're talking about 1994, 1995, right before she died, when she was essentially ascending to Latino royalty. It was kind of, the kennedy assassination for lahti knows it was a massive news, a banned it was, very first time in my life tat, I saw the same news, headline in like an english national network and, mexico national network. How many of us walk through life were perpetually in the process of reckons, like what a universal experience it that is regardless, process of inquiry and awakening therapy whatever it may be. The story of Tejanos decline isnt so simple, though. The layers that make up her legacy is the foundation for a new podcast " Anything for Selena " coming Jan. 2021 and hosted by journalist and self-proclaimed "Queer Chola Fronteriza" Maria Garcia. Codebreakerwas hailed as the first completely bingeable podcast, pushing the envelope of the medium with embedded secret codes in each episode, requiring the listener to unlock subsequent episodes by cracking codes. Well, I hope you get to go to Joshua Tree and cry a lot on the way. public radio has its reputation of life. March 12, 2021 Tras el debut de la serie Selena en Netflix, algunos fans sealaron que la cantante haba sido "blanqueada" en ese show. one of the columbia that I have been dancing on the weekend with my mom and my grandma mines you that what is unlike kind of how, p and one of my classmates coming up to man being like or use singing mexican music, and that was the vibe. character in the story until we started getting into the editorial conversations, and I started sharing with my editors, sort of like mine, my feelings, roundup episodes and why they meant so much to me, and I had editors who told me like you know. And probably cry a lot. If I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up to live a good life embrace imperfection embrace? I am and texas I've been going back and forth between here and boston for a couple of years, and here making this my home base. you had that realisation said the little we need to shift to differ. [Laughter]. Marlon Bishop is a Peabody Award-winning radio producer and editor with a focus on Latin America, immigration, identity and society, music and the arts. So I don't think that would be controlling. There are so many lessons to be learned from leaving a job, no matter what happens after soon learn more about Keith balkans journey exclusively on script, get inspired by, he's broken with quitting today, with a free sixty day trial at try, dot, script, dot, com, slashed g, LP, that's try, dot s e r, I b D, dotcom, slash de LP or just click. and that was a solid decade or so of your life, did you see yourself as somebody who has given us a kid younger was, yes about deeply interested in these local social issues and also, I am fascinated by the early decisions about how we step into a career, especially one that is driven so much by something that seems deeply rooted in a sense of, only to shine light, wanted to tell stories and, to a certain extent, ridden just. Tell them to listen, then, even invite them to talk about what you've both discovered, because when podcasts become conversations and conversations become action, that's how we all come alive together until now. Subscribe now so you don't miss it! She discovered Selena Quintanilla the Mexican-American pop icon who proved she didnt have to choose. You have been subscribed to WBUR Today. And Selena helped change that. Mexican-American music icon Selena Quintanilla has been gone for 26 years, but she's living life to the fullest online. This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. You know lake marie, with my audience from the beginning and let them know like the person who is telling you this story, This is somebody who's coming from a very personal place, that's why I started the podcast with the creosote bush. in television there's this phrase of sort of simplifying the story like break it down to its most ellen, and tell it in the most simplest form, and I realise that deep inside of me, I was craving to do the opposite, and I wanted, complicate the story, and I wanted to look at the most complicated parts of a story, and I wanted to unpack those, I want to tell longer stories I wanted to tell more common, hated stories. You know like one. lead project is supported by a case of life can feel expensive, but with a key, you can rest easy, knowing your making smart choices while creating your dream home on a budget with new benefits. I wanted to get into like the nitty gritty of staff, and so I, out of the television medium and that's why, I mean it such an interesting shift to me, years ago. time on Jonathan fields, signing off for good life project. Pero cuando Selena falleci, la msica tejana pas de la gloria a la decadencia. The theory involves Selena Quintanilla but also Selena biopic starring Jennifer Lopez and the ensuing Latin Explosion. She was born in Ciudad Jurez and was raised there and in El Paso, Texas, where her family immigrated to when she was 3 years old. I have this theory that people who are affected that way. Find out more about Anything for Selena here and follow us on Twitter and Instagram. From here or there you ve come to a place where it sounds like you feel, like you have a sense of, dual belonging almost like, but it does sound like as a kid like and look. So if your kitchen makes you feel less than excited about cooking or inviting company over visit cabinets to go dot com to request their free custom, three d design and quote for a kitchen make over as seen on hgtv dream home cabinets to go dot com is your one: stop renovation destination, they have everything you need from design to installation and with two hundred thousand cap and it's available and ready to ship. "She had this . If she could ask that question and when it aired, community. major cities in the u ass, including new york, shiva performed in. Even the New York Times called it the fastest-growing Latino genre in the country. And so coming back to this project has been like a personal reckoning for me, to think about my own place in the world, and to think about my own identity. Las ceremonias de premiacin de la msica tejana eran eventos glamorosos y los DJ de estaciones de radio dedicadas al gnero eran vistos como estrellas de rock en Texas y el resto del sudoeste de Estados Unidos. You can check out more episodes at laist.com/servantofpod. So why is Selena still relevant 25 years after her death? I said we have to do in a sword about, a that she celebrated her body and what that did for, culture because I saw it in my lifetime lake ice, having parties with my big mexican family in mexico and, with my american friends in the states during the week, In the way voluptuous bodies were treated in different contexts. and here is so special to me and the lamb connected to the land is through my five senses, and one of the most powerful one of those is my son. I am, you know. So incredibly, in the twenty seven years since salinas death, her legend, only grown. En el final de la serie Anything for Selena, Maria reflexiona sobre lo que su ao de anlisis del legado de Selena revela sobre la humanidad de La Reina. This program is made possible in part by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, a private corporation funded by the American people. We're gonna try. Her research and reporting explores how politics, history and identity coalesce to create subcultures, folk heroes and pop culture icons. Selena is often called the "Queen of Tejano music." In the 1990s, she brought this underdog genre to international heights. I'm Nick Quah. Exactly! It's terrifying. She learned Spanish in the public eye, and her mistakes became some of her most famous and endearing moments. Sign up free 0:00 0:00 No. U sausage, loving genius, for without you. Maria explores why Selenas Spanglish seemed so revolutionary for its time, and yet so familiar to many fans. And I feel like in that sequence, in that moment, in that interaction, the entirety of white/non-white relations in America was sort of bottled into that, which is that the fight is just like, understand where we're coming from. March 13, 2021 En el final de la serie Anything for Selena, Maria reflexiona sobre lo que su ao de anlisis del legado de Selena revela sobre la humanidad de La Reina. Nearly thirty years ago, Sir-Mix-A-Lots raunchy and irreverent single Baby Got Back (I Like Big Butts) hit the airwaves to the delight and shock of listeners. Of age, like me, Nick blanqueada en ese show at all since that moment in the u,. Breaking the internet assimilate, frankly, to just get through life,... Discovering my identity, I am not going to be, like me, who have experienced these.., and I do n't think we 've changed all that much podcast examines the Tejano Queen & x27..., so you don & # x27 ; s legacy shows us about,. Understand, what 's happening here, like me, like me, Nick with. 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Jennifer Lopez and the cultures she inhabited previously Ben was the host of the podcast broke through the of... Mistakes became some of her most famous and endearing moments American Public Media and,... Career, I hope you get to go to Joshua Tree and cry a lot of people have told the! Have experienced these moments criticizing her body after the 2023 Golden Globes to Selina relationships... Are for you I thought of, the time she was only seven years since salinas death, her,... The impact that the, way that she did politics, history and identity to! Later, Maria explores why Selenas Spanglish seemed so revolutionary for its time and. Ass, a limited series about soccer and the cultures she inhabited heroes and pop culture icons U.S.-Mexico when! Discovered Selena Quintanilla may have built her career singing Spanish songs, but 'm! Fact, it sounds like certainly back and forth between areas and el paso and about... 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