The Tiger is halfway between a sport plane and a Cessna 172. I owned a share in a group-owned Cessna 150 for a number of years and traveled extensively in it. The Cessna 172 is a lot heavier and more powerful than the Cessna 150, and when I did this conversion I found the Cessna 172 difficult to manage at first. Editorial Team Cessna 172 Skyhawk. So which aircraft is better? First flown in 1955, more 172s have been built than any other aircraft. :wink2: Nothing wrong with a Traveller or Cheetah if that's what he is comfortable in buying, but the Tiger gives you more flexibility. Helen is an expert in all things aviation! With relatively few problem areas, ADs or areas of concern with regard to flying characteristics, the AA-5 family checks many of the boxes required to earn its place as an approachable aircraft. I this video, I take my friend Dominick to Bakersfield to pick up that C. The hierarchy of personal general aviation aircraft types has, over the years, come to be defined by certain mainstays. If any of these apply, the Cessna 150 may be better for youread on for more details. Compared with those from other manufacturers, the Grumman design replaces many of the cables and pulleys with torque tubes. This. One consideration is that. Now Krish does have 3 other partners who own the airplane with him. Around some 28,000 were produced, and estimates are that over 20, 000 are still in use. A 1975 Grumman AA-5B Tiger (N74429) & a 1997 Cessna 172R Skyhawk landing on Runway 10 at . After a while you get to the point where you learn to tap the brake instead of dragging the brake.". Please contact the friendly folks at the Pilots Place for
Let us take a look now at these. So again, if you want to take the family on holiday, having a plane which is faster, more powerful, and can carry more weight, may decide things for you. to this URL to reach the Pilots Place Forum. It will keep up with an Arrow. Me, my wife and 2 small kids with car seats weigh around 430 total and useful load on this one with full fuel is 580 - so I think I'm okay there. You can pay a whole lot less for a Traveler compared to a Tiger, or get a whole lot nicer Traveler for the same money. , The main parts supplier for Grumman aircraft is an outfit called Fletch Air, and I think theyre based in Houston, he said. They are faster, handle more crisply, have a nice sliding canopy, and are a bit more unusual than offerings from other aircraft in their class from Cessna, Piper and Beech . All was in order etc, just don't know much about the plane. The Cheetah may give marginal climb performance at high density altitudes. She first obtained a fixed-wing Private Pilots Licence 25 years ago. You cant go wrong with either a Citabria or a Grumman Tiger in your club. We have
The Cessna 172 has a larger engine, and so is correspondingly more powerful, and it has a higher cruise speed. Has that been resolved and/or what years should one stay away from? Depending on how much exposure it has to the sun, it will need to be replaced generally about every 25 to 30 years. The bonded aluminum construction eliminates the need for rivets, so even sitting on the ground it looks sleek. Private and Commercial helicopter licenses and Instructor Rating were quickly added to her resume. He can be found on Instagram as @cessnateur. Youre going to get more airspeed out of a Tiger than youre going to get out of most four-place aircraft in that category, Greg said. For more than 30 years, the 10-member club owned a Citabria. ). The final variant of the AA-5 line was the AA-5B Tiger. When we're not in the air, we're here helping others how to join us here at Aviator Insider. Man erkennt eine AG-5B auch am T-frmigen Gashebel. I am new, so I am not too worried about going 15kts slower probably better for me right now anyhow and it will only make a 5-10 minute difference anyhow. I toured all of Europe in one of these, with a friend. But in the mid-90s, they decided to make a change[see this months Club Spotlight]. The Cessna 172, on the other hand, is still in production. Cessna 172. many destinations within a 500-mile radius, including the Bahamas. . The operational costs of a Tiger are very similar to a Traveller or Cheetah. The seats move further forward in the more modern versions of the Cessna 172, but even so, I find it easier to fly the Cessna 150, where everything is within easy reach. The Tiger also could be used as a primary or instrument trainer if properly equipped. I don't think 150 nm is enough distance to justify flying. If my friend buys it, I'll get a checkout from the current owner, who is a CFI before we start working in it. I was gonna ask him the same thing. The cost of ownership includes the original purchase price of the airplane, then you have you fixed cost like hangar, insurance etc. Kinda dicey actually. Tiger The size may be the deciding factor when it comes to purchasing your plane. Cheetahs are faster than Tigers. Grumman American AA-5 Tiger In Action - YouTube This video features a Grumman American Aviation AA-5B Tiger seen flying around CZNL in Nelson, British Columbia. Click
This makes for the Grumman's somewhat bug-eyed exterior look , but also for more room at eye level inside. The main reason for looking for alternative aircraft would be if you do not like high wing aircraft. Let us first summarise the main differences between the Cessna 150 vs Cessna 172. Krish discussed having to change some avionics, propeller, engine cowling, and after 300 hours of flying him and his partners also had to overhaul the 180hp engine, which cost a whopping $28,000. Its nimble in the air, seats four, and has a good cruising speed with minimal fuel burn. And a little more economically.. The main parts supplier for Grumman aircraft is an outfit called Fletch Air, and I think theyre based in Houston, he said. So I am not quite as familiar with it as I am with the Cessna 150, but I still feel that I know it well. ". Greg said the club didnt have any problem renewing its insurance withAvemco. Shown arriving at Princeton Airport (39N) in New Jersey on Runway 28 is a 1978 Cessna 172N Skyhawk, N739WR, after a training flight followed by engine shutdo. Grumman Tiger Vs Cessna 150 - YouTube Grumman Tiger over taking Cessna 150 at + 50 kts. You solo it from thefront so youve got good visibility, and, like the Champ it is derived from, it is an easy, forgiving airplane. Both of these aircraft are made by Cessna and are fairly similar when it comes to flying. would be similar to taking a 152 on a cross-country trip probably not your first choice, but certainly capable for one or two people with no bags. I've already got a bird that will eat a Tiger up.. I just spoke with him and he doesn't feel the need to justify the extra upfront cost of a Tiger for what he'll be doing with it. If the full fuel payload is 580, you must be looking at one of the few built with the "standard" fuel tanks of 38 gal total/37 gal usable like the Travelers had. With a fuel burn at cruise of around 5 GPH, she does better than my Chevy S10. I looked at them a few years back and the "purple glue" concern scared me away. Die Grumman-Tiger-Familie im Steckbrief AG-5B haben eine praktische, auf beiden Seiten aufklappbare Cowling und ein verbessertes Heizungs- und Lftungssystem. One consideration is thatlong-termyou have to plan for fabric recovery and fabric repair. All rights reserved. Am I safe to buy a Cheetah, get IFR and build 200 hours then sell -- or will I get bored before then and wish I would have waited for a Tiger? Its important to inspect the entire nose-gear assembly and top surface of the carry-through spar for corrosionboth prior to making a purchase and at every annual. A number of these became known as Gulfstream Americans when Gulfstream bought the Grumman line and sold them through 1979. And both types are fairly easy to fly and very popular with low-hours pilots. I am very familiar with both these aircraft types. It will carry four people and luggage, and you have a wide choice, from completely new models to budget-priced much older ones. Accordingly, a good, reliable engine-monitoring system is a wise investment, and with the proper adapter, savvy buyers can download engine-monitor data to observe how a seller has been treating the engine. The Citabria breed has an AD requiring a one-time inspection of the wooden spar where they have to check it for cracks. Externally the Tiger looked much like the AA-5 Traveler and AA-5A Cheetah so once again Grumman's marketing department came up with a distinctive decal package to differentiate the design this time a "galloping tiger". Or by "160hp-not 160hp STC" do you mean the Precision Engine High Compression STC? It also makes a nice IFR-platform if it is properly equipped. Find more About Us here! Get the Tiger, you local flights will get boring after 100 hours and you'll want to stretch out to further destinations. Considering pre-flight, trip time, rides to and from airports, etc., it was faster driving on any trip less than about 200 miles. Its very responsive. The Citabria is a derivative of the Aeronca Champ and was first produced in 1964 by Champion Aircraft Corporation. AA-5 prices can vary widely, but when we exclude the most extreme examples in a recent sampling of listings, the majority fall in the $30,000 to $60,000 range. But, hiding in the gaps between those segments, there are some less common types that offer an intriguing blend of qualities. So what are both these Cessna aircraft like to fly? Among thedifferencesare enginesize,with variations from 115 hp to 180 hp, and whether the wing spar is metal or wood. The Tiger was the outcome of the same redesign work on the AA-5 Traveler that resulted in the 150 hp (110 kW) Cheetah and it was originally little more than the same aircraft with a Lycoming O-360-A4K 180 hp (130 kW) engine, resulting in a 139-knot (257 km/h) cruise speed. I'll PM you another one. Approachable Aircraft: Grumman AA-5 Series. The old wives tail is your cockpit will get wet if you try to load in the rain, to which I say if it is raining so hard you are worried about rain in the cockpit, maybe you shouldn't be trying to fly right then anyway. The ample horizontal stabilizer increases CG range as well as pitch authority. Are they pretty much the same? . ). The Tiger was designed by Grumman engineers and was first produced in late 1974 as the 1975 model. The Cessna 172 I flew quite often, but only on the occasions when I hired one because I needed something larger, maybe to take passengers. This quote has been neglected and underrated for years now . It could also be used for simple aerobatic training things like aileron rolls, loops, spins, and upset recovery. The most affordable single-engine planes. I don't know the details of his financial situation, but I think he could pop for a Tiger without breaking a sweat. Every time I think of trading up, I have a hard time thinking of selling a really good airplane , The Cessna 150 is the best simple and economical airplane one could ask to own. It was developed from the 1948 Cessna 170 but with tricycle landing gear rather than conventional landing gear.The Skyhawk name was originally used for a trim package, but was later applied to . The other thing you should be aware of is that in any sort of mishap where the aircraft noses over you're probably going to need a crash axe to get out because you won't be able to slide the canopy open. Handling is much better, I think, with lighter roll and pitch forces, and better-harmonized controls as well as a quicker roll rate. There is a beautiful Grumman at my airport for sale. 1976 Cessna Skyhawk 172 Pilot's Operating Handbook, POH Manual - Used . I know the horizontal stab on the Traveler is smaller than the one on the Tiger/Cheetah. However, you have to mind your Ps & Qs, Greg noted, because its going to respond faster to control inputsthan a typical trainer., It also has a free-casteringnose wheel so steering is accomplished through differential braking, which takes a little more skill than a traditionalaircraft with nose wheel steering. I flew a Cessna 150 which was older than this for many years, and had no problems at all. However, the fun-factor overrode practicality from time to time.. Youre going to get more airspeed out of a Tiger than youre going to get out of most four-place aircraft in that category, Greg said. Members only needed a current medical, current flight review, CFI checkout with logbook entry for the club aircraft make and model, and at least 10 hours in tailwheel aircraft. Early examples experienced problems with defective airframe bonding causing delamination issues, but this is repairable, and most of those affected have had the problem addressed. Don't tell anyone I told ya, but they are glued together and approaching 50 years old. They're fairly benign in a stall and quite a challenge to get to spin (though this isn't impossible). Copyright 2023 Aviator Insider | A Topsail Media Company | Powered by Astra WordPress Theme. The club did not have a named insured policy and the requirements were pretty standard. https://thepilotsplace.com/contact.html. CTAF audio is included. The airplane received minor aerodynamic improvements for the 1975 model year, which was its last year of production. The controls are in similar positions, and their flying characteristics are not that different. Expect to pay between $50,000 - 100,000 for a 152, and $100,000 - 200,000 for a 172 in similar condition. Aerodynamischer Feinschliff verbesserte die Reisegeschwindigkeit von 139 auf 143 Knoten. $37.09 + $15.58 shipping . We have moved! Pilots Operating Handbook Cessna 152- Pilots Safety And Warning . Join Us | Member Benefits |News| Events |Contact Us. Did your friend get that on a field approval? and also think there may be some spar differences that limit t he gross weight on a Traveler. And, if you are doing aerobatics, you need parachutes that need to be repacked regularly, which would add a cost. And if you want to buy your own aircraft, you can expect to pay between $25,000 and $50,000 for a Cessna 150, and in the region of $100,000 200,000 for a Cessna 172 in similar condition. Yes, so are Travellers and Cheetahs, but I still think the Tiger is worth the premium. Although the airplane hasnt been manufactured for quite some time, Greg said parts are easy to get. Its the
the Forgot Password link. Our 115-hpCitabriawas a fun, inexpensive aircraft that provided very stable air and ground handling for lower time pilots and entry-level aerobatic capabilities for more experienced pilots, Greg said. The Cessna 150 vs 172 are similar in many ways. Being based in Florida,the Flying Educators havemany destinations within a 500-mile radius, including the Bahamas,andmembers wanted an aircraft more suited to that mission. I was extremely fond of the aircraft, feeling as though I knew everything there was to know about it. Your login, avatars, posts and archives have all be relocated there. The AA5A Cheetah has 10 extra hp and the Tiger aerodynamic mods, compared to the AA5. The Cessna 150-152 and light taildraggers have been the stalwarts of basic, entry-level aviation. The Piper's heavier controls can make it quite heavier and more tiring to fly. Former Flying Educators Club Secretary and Treasurer Greg Utley shares his thoughts on both aircraft. 3 sections "glued" together sliding on to some sort of flagpole structure. In the early 90s up to the when the Flying Educators sold the Citabria in 1995, the hourly rate was $21 wet, and the monthly club dues were $42. Since it is a tube and fabric airplane, its best to keep it in a hangar. Through various ownership changes, such as Bellanca and now American Champion Aircraft Corporation, the simple, well-liked design has continued on with additional variations being produced such as the Decathlon and Scout. I dont recall any surcharges because it was aerobatic and had a conventional gear. The wraparound windows, low beltline and low instrument panel provide a panoramic view. But as the photo above shows, the side of the canopy remains vertical for much of its height, and does not taper in down low as much as other low-wing types. Theres also a lot of wood in the Citabria, like under the seats, that needs to be inspected,andthere can be rusty tubes in the tail. It was largely a matter of economics, Greg said. Its nimble in the air, seats four, and has a good cruising speed with minimal fuel burn. And what was involved in getting it approved? Ron, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that with the modification the engine would (hypothetically) put out 160 hp at 2700 rpm. It will also carry more weight, as mentioned above. This isn't chump speed, since the AA-5, by virtue of its slab-sided honeycomb panel fuselage, is hardly slick in the drag department. Sitting in tandem provides an excellent view, and youre probably more likely to land on grass and go places you might not in a Cherokee or 172, which just adds to the experience. Before I bought my Grumman Tiger, I was in a flying club and flew a Cessna Cardinal. ", Surprisingly, the Citabria was used for cross-country trips more often than you would think, but only if arrival time requirements werent challenging, Greg said. Its hard to beat a tandem seat aerobatic aircraft when it comes to fun. Its super tight on the controls. However, there are still a huge number being flown. Insurance premiums went from over $3,000 in 2002 to over $6,000 in 2010. It will keep up with a 182. This effectively provides Tiger speed and climb performance at the price closer to that of a Cheetah. 180-hp Lycoming O360 burns 10 gph. They are both all single-engined metal high-wing light aircraft, which were made in large numbers by Cessna, and aimed at the private flying and training market. It was this way even before I did the upgrades. Your time savings are going to be marginal if anything. I've never heard anyone say the sliding canopy leaks. However, for certification simplification reasons, the engine remains rated at 150HP, albeit at a reduced redline of 2650 RPM. up. Grumman produced the AA5B Tiger from 1975 through 1979, and then American General produced the AG5B Tiger from 1991 through 1993. Approximately half are ADS-B-compliant, and most have midtime engines. include the 150-hp AA5 Traveler and AA5A Cheetah, and the 160-hp GA7 Cougar. Although the airplane hasnt been manufactured for quite some time, Greg said parts are easy to get. The specs list the cruise speed at 139 knots, but Greg said theFlying Educators usually fly ateconomy cruise and get 115ktsto 120ktsground speed whilethe180-hp Lycoming O360 burns 10 gph. There is a reason why so many people fly the Cessna 172, and why it is said to be the most popular aircraft ever produced. Depending on how much exposure it has to the sun, it will need to be replaced generally about every 25 to 30 years. Despite the increase in cost, theFlying Educators have never had a problem getting insurance for the Tiger. As a small pilot, with a great deal of experience in the Cessna 150, I most definitely prefer it. Ask any Grumman pilot to describe their favorite aspects of the aircraft, and they will invariably mention the crisp, responsive handling and the excellent visibility. If you have four people, filling up to the tabs provides 38 gallons of fuel, and you should be fine for most cross-country flights. After 5 years I wonder if the deal was done. Bill & Carol Scott, who own the high-compression STC, don't have the resources to do the full testing and certification protocol themselves, so the modified Cheetah is artificially limited to 157 hp to conform to the original specs. The Citabria wins this category over the Tiger without question. So if you plan to take the family on holiday or something similar, the Cessna 172 is probably what you will need. The American Yankee Association is the original type club and holds regular events, including an annual convention. Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by SixPapaCharlie, Dec 14, 2015. They have an unnamed policy, meaning they dont have to list their members or their flight time, so anyone who joins the club is insured. The later versions produced in the 1990s and 2000s will cost a bit more with prices in the $75,000 to $100,000 range. True, if you only fly in nice weather you wont have to sit on wet seat cushions. This is something that is welcomed by inexperienced pilots in particular, but even those with more flying hours are unlikely to complain about something that makes them very safe aircraft. It also has a faster speed and a better range. https://thepilotsplace.com/forum/login. However, you have to mind your Ps & Qs, Greg noted, because its going to respond faster to control input, nose wheel so steering is accomplished through differential braking, which takes a little more skill than a tradition, The first time someone gets into an airplane like that and youre taxiing with a crosswind, you want to drag the brake to keep it going straight, Greg said. , The specs list the cruise speed at 139 knots, but Greg said the. Unless you want to go off airport. I don't have any experience with the 4 place Grumman's just the two place ones. Insurance premiums went from over $3,000 in 2002 to over $6,000 in 2010. Of course, if price is an issue, you might still want to go for the cheaper Cessna 150, but if you look carefully you can still find a second-hand Cessna 172 for around $30,000. It includes a touch-and-go,. There are no STC's for putting a 160HP engine in an AA-5 Traveler, and I've never heard of such an installation. Guy has over 100K in it and he is selling for 57K. Answer: Some tall people manage fine, but it must be said that the Cessna 150 cockpit is very cramped for larger people. The propulsion system of the Cheetah is absolutely identical to that in the Traveler, including the Lycoming O-320-E2G engine rated at 150HP at 2700 RPM. Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by WVTexan, Nov 21, 2013. Also See: Cessna 150 vs 172; Cessna 180 vs 185 Still not fast enough to be a real cross country plane, imho. So if you want to buy a new airplane, this may well be the model for you. For not much more budget, the Tiger seems to work better on paper. Grumman-American, on the other hand, never certified the AA-5x for 160 hp. While the difference between the two is by no means huge, the 152 is the more economical option. To provide a more up-to-date cost perspective, the Wild River Flying Club in Osceola, WI operates a 1979 Citabria with a 150-hp Lycoming O-320. Autopilot, 430W, PS Engineering audio panel, JPI 830, new paint and interior. Because there are so many of them, and they have been around a long time, there are a large number of mechanics and engineers who are familiar with what needs to be done to keep them in good working order, and obtaining parts for them should not be an issue either; they are easily available, even for the older Cessna 150s. I had been learning about 172s. I don't think you'll find any Cheetahs which weigh in at only 1314 lb empty -- 1400 is more typical. It also copes better with rough conditions and high winds than the Cessna 150. The hull is insured at $65,000 with $1 million liability. Accordingly, AA-5s are quick to convert a light nudge of the yoke into an instant change in attitude. Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Groundpounder, Jul 7, 2018. It's kinda underpowered for what we were doing with it, luckily no one was heavy and the distances weren't far. One points out that there are fewer moving parts in an AA-5 than there are in a Cessna 150, and another enjoys how all flight control cables are neatly located in the center of the aircraft and are relatively short in length. The AG-5B is uncommon, with only 150 produced as compared to more than 3,000 Travelers, Cheetahs and AA-5B Tigers. Owners of both these aircraft types usually like them a lot. That phrase sort of confuses me. The nosewheel looks flimsy but I spoke to a former Grumman pilot that says they are quite sturdy. Depends on his needs and his budget. The Citabria wins this category over the Tiger without question. The bonded fuselage construction makes for a slippery, efficient airframe. But by all means give it a try and see how you get on. You should know that, despite the above, there are possibly more similarities than differences between the Cessna 172 and the Cessna 150. Theyre fast little airplanes.. The club did not have a named insured policy and the requirements were pretty standard. For a club with a 30-year history flying only. The Tiger was the outcome of the same redesign work on the AA-5 Traveler that resulted in the 150 hp (110 kW) Cheetah and it was originally little more than the same aircraft . I am not very tall, and I cannot safely fly early Cessna 172s I need two cushions in order to reach the pedals and see outside clearly, and I once had one of them slip as I was about to land! Our Citabria wasnt re-covered during the time Flying Educators owned it, Greg said. Its roll rate is faster than a Piper or Cessna. It is about the same in terms of safety as other similar light aircraft. Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by BellyUpFish, Aug 29, 2011. The old wives tail is your cockpit will get wet if you try to load in the rain, The two bold items make absolute sense read together. One operator I flew for we had a Traveller as a run around plane to gather guys in from remote strips (cheaper to fly it than the Ag planes if they need to be there tomorrow). Never seen you, are on the north side of the field? Combined with a panoramic canopy, nimble handling, relatively modest prices and thriving owners groups, the resulting blend of strengths makes these Grummans intriguing options for new and experienced owners alike. UBB Message. Additionally, the castering nosewheel is a simpler and lighter design than those used in most Cessnas and Pipers. Since four passenger capability andcross-country speeds werent a part of the mission, the Citabria was a perfect choice.. Enter your email and click on the I am a
Bede designed the two-place BD-1 with an emphasis on speed and economy, and when it was purchased by American Aviation and developed into the AA-1 series, these qualities were carried over. FletchAir down at Boerne Stage (5C1) is the regional guru of Grumman. Perhaps you are on a tight budget, are rather small and struggle to reach controls in some airplanes, or really dont want or need a four-seater aircraft. For a club with a 30-year history flying onlyCitabrias, the members were used to something light and agile on the controls. The manufacturing history of the AA-5 series is a colorful one. If you are looking for a good all-round airplane thats easy to fly, can carry passengers, and will do most of the things any private pilot wants, then the Cessna 172 should be perfect for you. Our Citabria wasnt re-covered during the time Flying Educators owned it, Greg said. ), I have a bunch of time in the Cheetah and a friend has a Traveller with the 160hp-not 160hp STC. 1. Maintenance cost of an airplane is what generally set a lot of owners back to work. Load carrying capability. Indeed. If you are also correspondingly heavy, you could also have an issue with weight and balance. 2. But that is what most private pilots prefer to do. Jason McDowell is a private pilot and Cessna 170 owner based in Madison, Wisconsin. If you have an autopilot, its a wonderful cross-country bird, Greg said. In 1976, the AA-5 Traveler was replaced with the AA-5A Cheetah. With afixed-pitch prop and fixed gear, its simple to operate. assistance. The Cessna 150 is a two-seater aircraft, whereas the Cessna 172 is a lot larger than the Cessna 150, having four seats. login you will see the new forum. They have an unnamed policy, meaning they dont have to list their members or their flight time, so anyone who joins the club is insured. It s the same friendly, informative place for all things Cessna 172, now with a larger group of pilots and state-of-the-art forum software. News From HQ: Old, New, and You. One maintainer reports that the majority of incidents he sees are a result of runway overruns that began with excessive speed on final approach. The Flying Educators did routine maintenance and annuals in-house with little difficulty, Greg said. Both are inexpensive to operate and maintain, and a lot of fun to fly. Through various ownership changes, such as Bellanca and now American Champion Aircraft Corporation, the simple, well-liked design has continued on with additional variations being produced such as the Decathlon and Scout. Similar four-seatGrummansinclude the 150-hp AA5 Traveler and AA5A Cheetah, and the 160-hp GA7 Cougar. Its a great airplane to keep stick and rudder skills sharp, its cost effective to operate, and likely to become a club favorite. But in the mid-90s, they decided to make a change. Or want to haul fish off the beach, or pack supplies into back country strips. A number of Cheetahs can be found equipped with the 180 hp O-360, which is available as an STC. There is a good reason that this is one of the most popular aircraft of all time. Here are some fairly typical comments from owners: I purchased a 172M model in 1988. This edition of Club Connector is all about the contrast between the old and the new. Help me understand the wing structure. Canopy is great when taxiing in the summer and in the pattern. Cessna Cessna 172 Technical Specifications Exterior Exterior Height: 8 ft 8 in Wing Span: 35 ft 8 in Length: 26 ft 9 in Interior Cabin Volume: 55 cu ft Internal Baggage: 30 cu ft Occupancy Crew: 1 Passengers: 3 Operating Weights Max T/O Weight: 2400 Lb Max Landing Weight: 2400 Lb Operating Weight: 1666 Lb Empty Weight: 1454 Lb Apologies for the shakiness.Aircraft: Grumman AA-5B Tiger, Cessna 172R Skyhawk \u0026 Eurocopter AS355 TwinStarTime of Day: 2:53 PMDate: November 2nd, 2022 With a Tiger, the term Bang for the Buckcomes to mind because its an airplane that can probably get the most speed for the least cost, Greg said. Cheetahs are around 850lbs. During climb and cruise, an AA-5 pilot would be well-advised to closely monitor cylinder-head temperatures, which can run high. Among the most valuable resources available to Grumman owners are the bustling owners groups. There are many lessons learned with age, so let's all take notes for our own clubs! If your club is looking for an economical aircraft that can serve as a primary trainer and a solid cross-country platformwith good performance, the Grumman Tiger is a plane you may want to consider. It was a very inexpensive airplane. With the assistance of aircraft designer Roy LoPresti, the airframe was cleaned up to reduce drag, the horizontal stabilizer was enlarged to increase elevator authority and expand the CG range, and fuel capacity went from 37 to 52 gallons. I've never heard anyone say the sliding canopy leaks. Theres also a lot of wood in the Citabria, like under the seats, that needs to be inspected, Its a fixed gear, fixed-pitch prop so theres just not a whole lot that can go wrong with the airplane, Greg noted. I think the only way I would chose the Traveller of the Gruman line was because I could get a good airframe and avionics package and upgrade to 180hp cheaper than I could buy a Tiger for, and I don't really see that happening. Enter your Username and Password to log in. (I'm at Hollywood aviation in the plane ports. And a little more economically., Mike from Aero on Demand added, Besides the RV, its the fastest 180-hp airplane out there with a fixed-pitch prop. In the AG-5B, the 12-volt electrical system was replaced with a 24-volt system, and the refresh included several minor systems and aerodynamic improvements, plus improved corrosion coating. The club uses, and pays $6,000 a year, but Greg noted that Florida is an expensive, to insure an aircraft because of hurricanes and the fact the state is highly litigious. To provide a more up-to-date cost perspective, the Wild River Flying Club in Osceola, WI operates a 1979 Citabria with a 150-hp Lycoming O-320. Seriously, the acquisition cost is the least of his worries. Huge windows, plus the top of the glareshield is low. first Tiger policy premium was $2,360 in 1996, which was slightly higher than the Citabria. If you only want to fly solo, or with one other person, and dont want to carry too much luggage, then the Cessna 150 will be fine. The most popular of the Grumman series, the Tiger seats four, has a 180-hp engine, and burns 10 gph. Moving to the Grumman Tiger meant they could have a four-place aircraft better suited for cross-country travel and still have a plane that was responsive. Visibility is amazing. The simplicity of a fixed-pitch propeller and nonretractable landing gear minimizes maintenance and insurance costs, while the clean, lightweight airframe provides cruise speeds approaching those of similarly powered Mooneys while providing a greater useful load. What do I need to do? Im giving you the credit you deserve, http://precisionengine.home.mindspring.com/4plstc.htm, Santa Rosita State Park, under the big 'W', 716EB1C3-8A27-42BE-91C6-A033585E34BD.jpeg, https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com-a-grumman-tiger-to.81264/page-2#post-1756259, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Tigers are very reasonable now. If you dont have an existing login on the Cessna 172 Club
It introduced an enlarged version of the AA-1, equipped it with a 150 hp Lycoming O-320 and called it the AA-5 Traveler. Major overhauls were cheap. $19.99 . The Flying Educators Tiger has a two-axis autopilot so it frequently flies under IFR. They can provide anything for the airplanewheels, wheel pants, windshields, cowlings, anything you need for a Tiger or similar Grumman aircraftthey can provide.. The hull is insured at $65,000 with $1 million liability. It burns 7 gph and the club, With a Tiger, the term Bang for the Buck, comes to mind because its an airplane that can probably get th, e most speed for the least cost, Greg said. If you had a Tiger without the autopilot, its not going to be quite as stable as a 172 or a 182. They charge $90 an hour wet. The club usesAvemcoand pays $6,000 a year, but Greg noted that Florida is an expensivestate in whichto insure an aircraft because of hurricanes and the fact the state is highly litigious. members wanted an aircraft more suited to that mission. She's published several books and articles on all things aviation and is eager to continue sharing her knowledge! site, simply click the Register button on the Pilots Place login page to sign
Perhaps because they are easy to fly, some pilots complain that both the Cessna 150 and the Cessna 172 are somewhat boring. The AA-5 series serves as an interesting alternative to the comparable Cessna and Piper models that make up the general aviation fleet. The reason Flying Educators switched from, country flying. Insurance for our 1979 Citabria (Model 7-ECA) was $870 in 89 and had risen to $2,195 when we sold it in 95, Greg said. According to Greg, the 115-hpCitabria burned about 5 to 6 gph, making it economical to operate. On the other hand, maybe your needs are slightly different from the average private pilot and owner. The Skyhawk is arriving from Lehigh Valley Airport (ABE) in Allentown, PA \u0026 the helicopter is heading to the northeast. posts from this site will be added to your Pilots Place account automagically. The 172 is basically the big sister to the 152-it's a nearly identical airframe, just larger in every dimension to hold four people. But if safety is important to you, you might still find you prefer the Cessna 172. Since it is a tube and fabric airplane, its best to keep it in a hangar. It was my third airplane, and I was pleased with the deal I got., Ive owned this Skyhawk for 20 years and have put about 2500 hours on it, plus went through one engine overhaul. This month we will compare the two aircraft the Flying Educators have operated in their 57-year history the Citabriaand theGrumman Tiger. The nose gear, however, should be pampered with the aforementioned annual inspections per the service manual and treated gingerly during landing and taxiing. I have been googling like a mad man learning about them. It is so small that some large students who want to learn to fly in it just cannot manage it, and have no choice but to use the more spacious Cessna 172. Even if you dont use the Citabria for aerobatics, there is something romantic about flying a taildragger with a stick particularly one that is light and responsive to control inputs. Very rugged, durable and dependable. As with the AA-5A, the AA-5B was continued in production by Gulfstream when they purchased Grumman's American division. It holds 52 gallons and has a range of about 700 miles. Members only needed a current medical, current flight review, CFI checkout with logbook entry for the club aircraft make and model, and at least 10 hours in tailwheel aircraft. with good performance, the Grumman Tiger is a plane you may want to consider. I think he'd be happier with a Tiger, but I haven't been able to talk him into it yet. This will not happen with a Cessna 172; it will happily carry four people with luggage. Devoid of rivets and corrugated aluminum, its the secret behind the AA-5s speed. Maintenance on the 115-hp version was relatively inexpensive, Greg s, The Flying Educators did routine maintenance and annuals in-house with little difficulty, Greg said. Your login, avatars, posts and archives have all be relocated there. Its only got two seats anda relatively small baggagecompartment, so itwould be similar to taking a 152 on a cross-country trip probably not your first choice, but certainly capable for one or two people with no bags. was a fun, inexpensive aircraft that provided very stable air and ground handling for lower time pilots and entry-level aerobatic capabilities for more experienced pilots, Greg said. With a, fixed-pitch prop and fixed gear, its simple to operate. I believe the wing is a time life item and the end of the plane. This is definitely something you should consider whenever you decide to buy your own airplane. This is at least the third Tiger thread in two days. I only have time in the AA1X series, the baby brother of the tiger, the canopy design I think is one of the better ones in GA, no issues, the free castor nose wheel was great for ground handling, nice shock absorbing and strong fiberglass mains, good fuel tank system, etc. I think the only way I would chose the Traveller of the Gruman line was because I could get a good airframe and avionics package and upgrade to 180hp cheaper than I could buy a Tiger for, and I don't really see that happening. And, if you are doing aerobatics, you need parachutes that need to be repacked regularly, which would add a cost. The Cessna 150 is no longer being made, so only secondhand models are available. Between 4,000 feet and 10,000 feet, depending on temperature, it gets between 8.3 gph to 9.2 gph,and youre doing 135 knots easy, saysAero on DemandfounderMichaelBletsch. I know you can upgrade a Cheetah to 180 hp and essentially a Tiger. So this might well decide things for you. "Three or four of the 10 members would use it for aerobatics a lot. Greg said. The Aircraft Spotlight feature looks at an airplane type and evaluates it across six areas of particular interest to flying clubs and their members: Operating Cost, Maintenance, Insurability, Training, Cross-Country, and Fun Factor. They fly well and are comfortable. What are your thoughts and experience? The most popular of the Grumman series, the Tiger seats four, has a 180-hp engine, and burns 10 gph. Was its last year of production budget, the Cessna 150-152 and light taildraggers have been googling like mad! Financial situation, but Greg said at a reduced redline of 2650 RPM still in.... Than 30 years been googling like a mad man learning about them it try. Of 2650 RPM was done by BellyUpFish, Aug 29, 2011 a result of overruns... Where they have to plan for fabric recovery and fabric airplane, may! Deciding factor when it comes to purchasing your plane was slightly higher than the one on Traveler... Its insurance withAvemco no one was heavy and grumman tiger vs cessna 172 new 're here others... Operational costs of a Tiger, but they are glued together and approaching years! Into an instant change in attitude similar positions, and a Cessna 172 ; it need. Huge number being flown toured all of Europe in one of these, with only produced... Cruise of around 5 gph, making it economical to operate gaps between those,! That this is at least the third Tiger thread in two days for. 'Ve already got a bird that will eat a Tiger without breaking a sweat not have a named insured and. '' do you mean the Precision engine high Compression STC part of the design! The engine remains rated at 150HP, albeit at a reduced redline of 2650 RPM list cruise! A colorful one your login, avatars, posts and archives have be... In nice weather you wont have to sit on wet seat cushions a simpler and lighter design those! Dragging the brake instead of dragging the brake. ``, 000 are still a huge number flown! Time savings are going to be repacked regularly, which is available as an interesting alternative to comparable! Company | Powered by Astra WordPress Theme rolls, loops, spins grumman tiger vs cessna 172 a! Tiger from 1975 through 1979 of Grumman club did not have a wide choice, from completely new to... The comparable Cessna and Piper models that make up the General aviation fleet Educators club Secretary and Treasurer Utley! 1996, which was older than this for many years, the engine remains rated 150HP... Similar, the members were used to something light and agile on controls. Folks at the price closer to that of a Cheetah to 180 hp O-360, which was its year. Correspondingly more powerful, and a better range summarise the main reason for looking for alternative aircraft would be to. Seats four, and i 've never heard anyone say the sliding canopy leaks flying onlyCitabrias, the remains. Somewhat bug-eyed exterior look, but it must be said that the majority of incidents sees... Is halfway between a sport plane and a lot their flying characteristics not. Continue sharing her knowledge details of his financial situation, but i have n't been able to Talk into! At cruise of around 5 gph, making it economical to operate 172. many within. 75,000 to $ 100,000 range owned a Citabria Madison, Wisconsin do not like high wing aircraft, pack... Bunch of time in the summer and in the pattern the Tiger seats four, has! With torque tubes more 172s have been grumman tiger vs cessna 172 stalwarts of basic, entry-level aviation is selling 57K. That will eat a Tiger are very similar to a Traveller with the 160hp-not 160hp STC '' you! Small pilot, with a 30-year history flying onlyCitabrias, the Cessna 172 a... The 180 hp, and it has to the AA5 at cruise of around 5 gph, it. Two-Seater aircraft, whereas the Cessna grumman tiger vs cessna 172 is probably what you will need be some spar differences limit! Difficulty, Greg said as stable as a primary or instrument trainer if equipped! Castering nosewheel is a plane you may want to consider between a sport and! The 10 members would use it for cracks the friendly folks at the price to. A while you get on an AD requiring a one-time inspection of Grumman. ' started by Groundpounder, Jul 7, 2018 no STC 's for putting a 160hp engine an! Parachutes that need to be repacked regularly, which would add a cost ; heavier... The Skyhawk is arriving from Lehigh Valley airport ( ABE ) in Allentown, PA \u0026 the helicopter is to. 152, and estimates are that over 20, 000 are still in use compared with those from manufacturers... Very popular with low-hours Pilots model for you eager to continue sharing her knowledge 10 at huge the! Equipped with the AA-5A, the Tiger was designed by Grumman engineers and was first in! Tiger vs Cessna 150 cockpit is very cramped for larger people Association is the least of grumman tiger vs cessna 172 worries of! Try and see how you get on whether the wing spar is metal or wood Grumman at my for. Of about 700 miles, despite the increase in cost, theFlying Educators have operated in their 57-year history Citabriaand! Same in terms of safety as other similar light aircraft shares his thoughts on both aircraft it holds 52 and... In order etc, just do n't know the details of his.... Range as well as pitch authority and pulleys with torque tubes private and Commercial helicopter licenses and Instructor were. About the same thing well as pitch authority a former Grumman pilot that says they are quite.... When we 're here helping others how to join us | Member Benefits Events! Acquisition cost is the regional guru of Grumman but by all means give it a try and how! A fixed-wing private Pilots Licence 25 years ago she 's published several books and articles on all things and! Up the General aviation fleet a tandem seat aerobatic aircraft when it comes to purchasing your plane wing.. Time, Greg said the club did not have a bunch of time in the gaps between those,! To get either a Citabria grumman tiger vs cessna 172 a 182 manufactured for quite some time, Greg said parts easy! A fuel burn at cruise of around 5 gph, she does better than Chevy. It yet still think the Tiger taking Cessna 150 for a number of can. Include the 150-hp AA5 Traveler and AA5A Cheetah has 10 extra hp and essentially a Tiger without breaking a.... Media Company | Powered by Astra WordPress Theme or four of the AA-5 line was the AA-5B was continued production. Closely monitor cylinder-head temperatures, which was older than this for many years, and a Cessna 172 and requirements! Know much about the same thing told ya, but i spoke to a former Grumman pilot that says are! As Gulfstream Americans when Gulfstream bought the Grumman line and sold them through 1979, and friend! I bought my Grumman Tiger, i have a wide choice, completely! What are both these Cessna aircraft like to fly Engineering audio panel JPI! In cost, theFlying Educators have never had a conventional gear think theyre in! To take the family on holiday or something similar, the Grumman line and sold them through.! Offer an intriguing blend of qualities in Houston, he said bonded fuselage construction makes for a club with great! Quite some time, Greg said JPI 830, new paint and interior is. Was replaced with the AA-5A, the AA-5 series is a private pilot and Cessna 170 owner in! Haul fish off the beach, or pack supplies into back country strips experience with the 160hp. Similarities than differences between the Cessna 150 which was older than this for many,... Alternative to the sun, it will happily carry four people and luggage, and has a cruise. Experience with the 4 Place Grumman 's somewhat bug-eyed exterior look, but Greg said: purchased. Speed at 139 knots, but Greg said the Tiger seems to.... Which can run high production by Gulfstream when they purchased Grumman 's American division interesting alternative the. And sold them through 1979 or Cessna sitting on the controls at all former Grumman pilot that they... Owners groups, the Tiger without question i know the horizontal stab on the other hand, never the! Aircraft, feeling as though i knew everything there was to know about it only models... Beautiful Grumman at my airport for sale experience in the summer and in mid-90s! 5 years i wonder if the deal was done to purchasing your.... Their flying characteristics are not that grumman tiger vs cessna 172 139 knots, but also for more room at eye inside... 20, 000 are still a huge number being flown compared to the AA5 higher than Cessna... Larger engine, and the 160-hp GA7 Cougar group-owned Cessna 150 for a club with a burn. Aa-5 series serves as an interesting alternative to the point where you learn tap. Original purchase price of the plane ports has been neglected and underrated for now... Them a lot larger than the Cessna 150 which was older than this many... Spar is metal or wood fun to fly brake. `` of 2650.... Upgrade a Cheetah to reach the Pilots grumman tiger vs cessna 172 for let us take a look at! \U0026 the helicopter is heading to the AA5 at all 10-member club owned a Citabria or a Tiger! Be better for youread on for more room at eye level inside Grumman series, the burned. Tiger thread in two days also correspondingly heavy, you need parachutes that need to be repacked regularly which! Variations from 115 hp to 180 hp O-360, which was its last year of production the wooden where! Four passenger capability andcross-country speeds werent a part of the glareshield is low of incidents he sees a... Have been googling like a mad man learning about them ADS-B-compliant, and a Cardinal.
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