On the other hand, in the church some members of my family attend, there is the sometimes subtle and sometimes in-your-face message that if you dont attend a church following the 9Marks model on a regular basis (no! Im aware that the owner of a local restaurant does something similar. This plague has even crossed the Atlantic and come to the UK. Preaching is fun. Many today are flocking to leadership seminars in order to learn how to fish from successful fishermen sociological pragmatism, pop psychology, new models of ministry, and ad nausea. I think that people are more comfortable with Jesus loves me (a song) than they are with keep my commandments (a direct quote from the mouth of Jesus) and some folks find it easy to play the two off against each other in order to avoid whatever they want to avoid and take advantage of whatever they want to take advantage of. @ Arnold Smartarse: You have an actual job with many other responsibilities. He paid it lip service in the introduction, but did not believe it as a sign of health. an abstract you who is just a part of a mass of faces. Another example is P.J. With the IMB and the NAMB and 9Marks and ERLC there, it sure looks like there will be political consolidation in D.C. of what used to be known as the SBC. I have been hearing from a few folks. Why we think we can somehow be in authority over anyone else spiritually? He isnt married in order to allow him to be the uberparent to the parish. I will be very interested to see how long this lasts. The non Cal-Staff members eventually left and were replaced with SBTS people. For whatever reason they didnt feel comfortable mixing with the common folk. It seems to me that youre all just looking for the perfect church. His Presence in their midst, is the witness of the Church (being not doing). Hmmmis there NO one in the UK and/or Ireland who can speak at the FIEC Leaders Conference that an American has to be imported? They say the importance of the sermon is a reason they cant have any interaction with the congregation. There is an interesting discussion on this subject between Mark Driscoll, James McDonald and Mark Dever here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ukvHuwFzBA. I hear you. Got a bit lively, but no legal or 501c3 problems. I have recently been told that this is the beginning of moving Platt out of the IMB by letting him *discover* that he would prefer to preach instead of trying to dig himself out of the mess at the IMB. Of course, we are to do stuff, but the text never says we are to do witnessing as if it is apart from who we are. Think of a bakery. I would also spend the other 20-25 hours getting to know the people and doing visitation-type activities. Or do you mean the Mega New Testament Church model, in which the large full-time staff are comfortably paid wages from the offering baskets of the local believers, Just like the Priests of the old Egyptian gods. Stomach full of staples for another week, but back to work with a few restrictions. Does theology (study of God) take precedence in your schedule? The teaching became ever more shallow, the focus shifted from sound teaching to pop-culture issues and my husband and I believe thats what set it up to bring Platt in. ___ We talk about the Pope and Pravda, but I think thats because some of us have seen scary stuff. And its the craziest thing ever. Local believers who had plenty sharing personally with other local believers who had need? All this flies under the radar. This discussion so far has focused on ministry unto the flock, but Leviticus is full of ministry unto the LORD. I wrote the following a few years ago: No thing compares to knowing Him. Platt has always been a figurehead at the IMB, in my opinion. I understand what youre saying, but there are few legal resources for church conflict. It took long enough! The scripture says that we are saved unto good works, For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath ordained that we should walk in them.. Ephesians 2:10 KJV, So, why would it not be both. David and his wife, Heather, have four children. Suffice to say, God desires a cleaned-up people group, where He can dwell in their midst. They are very thoughtful about these sorts of things, actually. You cant have it both ways and these special privileges may prove to be a future rationalization for govern, And the churches want to remain tax exempt, but they certainly do want to benefit from the taxes others pay in: And it is He himself, the Jesus of keep my commandments who says to some depart from me In what respects? Using the same idea to answer another enigma, why did Mark Dever himself give up the entire 9Marks system in order to protect C.J. It is the body of Christ. I love this story! How many weekly training hours do you suppose it takes to actually be able to win one of those? To me, its not mainly about feeding. How can you pastor a church if you dont meet the sheep???? This type can be described as an unusual repetition of sounds or rhythm. Did I miss that anywhere in this thread? (PS: We would like to know how many of Ed Stetzer church plants survived.It's a little hard to get that number). 4:10). David Platt (ThM, PhD, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary) is the pastor-teacher of McLean Bible Church, founder of Radical, and a Council member of The Gospel Coalition. Being hired to spend your week writing sermons and you lie about it and let someone else write them. Boy did that make some pastors extremely mad. But a sermon writing service? Say to the cities of America, Believe in Jesus Christ and be saved! So why do we continue supporting this made up role? is there NO one in the UK and/or Ireland who can speak at the FIEC Leaders Conference that an American has to be imported? If a merger is in the works (someone at SBC Today suggested that might be the case and was chided by a writer at SBCVoices for writing it which made me think its true) Ezell seems like the likely candidate. David Tennant is dying to work with Aaron Sorkin. Amazing to me is that these same preachers will harangue the members to up their donations to meet budget shortfalls! He could have one or not, but telling everyone when you first meet that he does NOT tells you something and its not a positive thing. The bread is indicative of the Bread of Life, and the lighted candlestick indicates someones home the presence of the Holy Spirit. But the idea that we are first born again and then immediately sent on mission of some sort (publicly profess the faith for example) was how we were taught back in the day in SBCville. Nor do they ever get any deeper. My father lost his position due to lies by officials above the local church and was told to vacate the parsonage with 60 days notice culminating Dec 31. My church now has quite short sermons, with liturgy. @Richard- My family also attends (Soon to be attended) MBC and feel the exact opposite. Oh wow Lydia, now you are getting into the territory that my daughter was discovering when she was at school in Baltimore and dating an SGM man. Stalling for time to make the transition. Local believers who had plenty sharing personally with other local believers who had need? David may be a great speaker, but hes not a good people person in my opinion. And he has a whiff of self-righteousness about him. Beware! McLean is new to theSouthern Baptist Convention. We worked out a formula to give the Sunday school class church a small donation to pay for our seat and the heating, etc. for a paper. I think the answer lies in two seemingly unrelated things sometime ~1997 when 9Marks took off and when SGM became Reformed. C.J. If we would just let God be God, He would draw all men unto Himself. the title teaching pastor means they do not have to interact with the peasant pew sitters. . +++++++++++++++++++++++. Web9. GSD, It is our reasonable service in light of Who God is. Sermon on the Mount definitely I have heard so much drivel from the pulpits over the years that they probably wont even have to use formaldehyde, or whatever, on my body; the drivel will be enough preservative. I appreciate so much the need for discernment and advocating for victims, but I dont see any crimes here, just a lot of fault finding where there really doesnt seem to be any fault. So we rarely, if ever, get to hear about them. The academy serving the Church is not explicit in scripture. Good little Suckers in the Mooch-and-Sucker Show. At the risk of opening up a rabbit-trail of dislike for Mr Warren, he is at any rate correct on this, and he lifts the lid on something that needs emphasising much more often than it currently is. Lea, Meeting in homes instead of large church buildings? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HPqDaKajSnQ No say in the process but you had best pony up to pay his salary! I believe this is the way missions should be viewed and accomplished. @ Bill: He sounds like a driven man. Sport | BBC - 5 Celebs You Probably Didn't Know had Speech Problems Who will pay the cost as a revelation of the worth of Gods love? If one then takes this approach and looks at a goodly number of other things in scripture which Christians argue about one finds a lot more leeway in scripture than apparently some folks want to tolerate in todays church culture and practice. i could care less about your career. From 2014 to 2017, Platt was president of the International Mission Board. Third thought is what is wrong with Trustees in the SBC that they cannot act? As far as being a teacher to the world, I hope the world reads scripture, knows Jesus, and does not believe everything that comes from Davids mouth or writings. Please let me know so that I dont continue to trigger you or others. David Platt has openly talked about the need to recruit and go after 18 to 25 year old students for their ultimate goals and purposes. The upper room in Jerusalem at Pentecost held a whole bunch of people and is unlikely to have been just somebodys parlor. With the IMB and the NAMB and 9Marks and ERLC there, it sure looks like there will be political consolidation in D.C. of what used to be known as the SBC. Im all over the continuum insofar as views go. WebApril 2004. I am preparing myself to disciple others. I know, I mean, how many golf stories can one hear? Youre not jaded, youre here and youre participating! When I emailed him asking to clarify if he believed working moms are disobeying Gods call, he forwarded my letter to an assistant to respond and I never really got a clear reply. That does not excuse poor leadership or unwise over-commitments as Platt seems to be doing here. I find it interesting that Paul never did this, at least in his letters. That is simply not a position that exists in the New Testament. This is odd to me. Far too many people are looking for a celebrity so they can say "We go to David Platt's church." @ Law Prof: I hear some of you saying that you want a personal interaction with a pastor. Vs 14 God says I know He Aaron can speak very well obviously God knew that Moses did have some legit problem with speech like stuttering. Platt is clearly NOT a pastor. Why would the love of God mean that we were created to merely be lap dogs good for nothing more than some sort of warm fuzzy feeling. We are called to be like the Bereans in Acts 17:11, so the more I followed up with Davids teaching I found that he plays fast and loose with Gods word. Im a liberal lefty too, and I think its high time to revamp the tax codes so that the loopholes are closed and that all non-profits (religious or no) must abide by the same rules. More amazing is members will do so. This gets dicey when one looks at Jesus own descriptions of the judgment, with Himself as the judge, and He spells out what people whom He knows look like in their behavior. Birds of a feather stick together, I guess that is why Platt has no problem appearing on the conference circuit with C.J. one person i talked to went to so far as to say we cant allow this, or else our tax-exempt status would be jeopardized. Please remember the Bible directly implies: All men will die in their sins unless they are converted, so when the Bible talks about the new birth(2), it is very, very important. I dont like Platt. If you love the Lord and truly follow the Lord, He will open opportunities where He wants you to be. Therefore, the playing field needed to be levelized by having the church comply with certain business ordinances. To be fair, I am not sure how accurate this information is but it is worth checking out. Yeah, I have had to have church at home on three different occasions in life. I think those who are critical of David and this arrangement with MBC dont understand the church. . We do not build service upon ministering unto others created things cannot be our motivation. But making the pulpit and the weekly sermon the center of our spiritual lives seems odd to me. ishy wrote: What does this mean? They just say they do. David Platts mission, whether he realizes it or not, is to make MBC a social justice church. Now THAT was really pushing it. My guess is that they are going to start monkeying around with what is being taught. What is Jesus gospel? It seems perfectly obvious to me that He wants more when it comes to eternity than just hanging around and thinking pleasant thoughts, so to speak. They must have gone in in laparoscopically. It is ended, neither by might of appeal (marketing) nor power of delivery systems, but by My Spirit, says the LORD. As does C H Spurgeon, the author of the quote. In kinda scratching my head here. I think its all bogus. I am taking a seminary course at the moment on pastoral leadership in a conservative seminary. We called a man (we were SBC)to preach. Its a fair question. But it should be available. A lot of nonsense is talked about peoples fear of public speaking. If one is to fulfill the requirements of love, then it is not enough that God loves us but we must also love God, the first and greatest commandment. He clearly could not know everyone by name as our capacity as humanssociologically speakingtaps out at around 150 (if you look at the literature). His book is biblically sound and his church is experiencing major changes, but its an existing Southern Baptist church. What does this mean? Look for a church in which the pastor knows your name and will sit by your bedside when you are in the hospital. Sometimes because of past hurts in churches, when I go to a church service, I just want to be an anonymous person who sits in the back. I do not make any claim to have arrived as a Christian, but I do have a daily practical intentional walk with Jesus. For those across the pond, ConAggerback is word play on ConAgra and Saddleback Church, and General Willow Mills is play on General Mills and Willow Creek. Latent Life Force: Frozen Inside Without A Voice?, Resist or get out of this infected 50(c)3 church, the spiritual life you save may very well be your own, How can you see into my eyes, like open doorsLeading you down into my coreWhere Ive become so numb, without a soulMy spirits sleeping somewhere coldUntil you find it there and lead it back home I tried real hard to laugh about it. Human nature says yes. Is this the same Augustine who is considered one of the fathers of the faith? The pastor at a church we attend is going to get a three month sabbatical in Jan. @ dee: Or do you mean the Mega New Testament Church model, in which the large full-time staff are comfortably paid wages from the offering baskets of the local believers (believers that they must manage) especially the ones who are sharing leadership with them on a non-paid basis, fitting it around the hours they work to earn money to live. My Word as precedence comes from conviction that faith comes by hearing the Word of God. More and more of the community are showing up with poor eyesight and bad circulation in the feet. http://www.wadeburleson.org/2017/06/the-southern-baptist-international.html. There was a youth minister a childrens minister and an education Minister. hows your son doing, bridget? Imagine how differently the church would impact the world if the money spent on buildings and salaries went to meeting needs? Maybe the problem is not David Platt but the mega church experience. Hopefully they will all burn themselves out by being crazy busy like Platt and go away! I have read all his books and eagerly take notes from every sermon. Wake me up, wake me up inside I cant wake up,Wake me up inside, save me,Call my name and save me from the dark, wake me upBid my blood to run, I cant wake upBefore I come undone, save meSave me from the nothing Ive become And when we take the word pastor and make of it a title and paid formal position rather than a gifting useful for service to others (which is all it appears to be in Eph 4), and when that position is essentially that of congregational CEO who is the head motivational speaker and (hopefully benevolent) king to whom all submit (rather than submitting one to another, and ultimately, of course, to Jesus), why are we surprised when we attract to that position those who are nothing more than entrepreneurial CEOs, vapid, idiotic motivational speakers, and little kings and God-haters who demand submission? A church in my area was hosting some type of Coffee House service very late on Friday nights. Madness. and if he doesnt, theres no reason not to create them ourselves. We believers are all priests, Jesus is our high priest, and we were not supposed to embrace this pagan shamanism nonsense to begin with. degenerative neurological or motor disorder. I would hate to see old church buildings have to all be sold because the congregation couldnt afford exorbitant property taxes. @ Hope: Its much better to have the Holy Spirit glory Christ in me, than I trying to be intentional about it. Its like a code for the party apparatus, comrade. Smyth of Covenant Life Church. Thats better left to the students he and Piper appeal to at their annual Cross Conference. Is this confirmed that he is doing it for free? But I could be mis-understanding you. But even on the most complicated issues, Ive never spent 20-25 hours just preparing for a meeting. What I would say is, if you ever find the perfect church, dont join youll spoil it. After reading your comments I was deeply discouraged, wow this man must be seriously egotistical and really has no heart for the church body. I saw this with the vicar of an Anglican church I used to go to. Free Ride: Please, No Explanations Inside The MBC Church. See how you feel then. So what's the deal? And, sometimes, you get the pleasure of seeing their petty responses to someone that they have no other way of harming. And they are extremely popular with Baptist pastors, but most Baptists have no idea they even exist. He always seems to focus on relational aspects, having a good marriage and family life, caring for each other in the church Never a guilt trip about not being missional enough. @ Sopwith: Just being a preacher doesnt make you a pastor. Or a CEO or accountant looking at the budget and deciding youre too expensive. I explain I cant do funerals, visits, phone calls, or meetings. This is a network of churches Smyth started while preaching in South Africa and is attempting to expand into the USA, but again, it doesnt appear to me that CLC members are getting an honest days work for the salary they are paying Smyth, but the average member doesnt seem overly concerned about that. The things she happened upon sent her down rabbit trails while she was researching Du Bai (sp?) Im a newbie here, so Im reluctant to put up a lot of text, but I do think this is applicable to the discussion. If I baked you 10 cookies but one had poison would you eat one or just throw the entire batch out? stroke. With my diverticulitis (AKA left-handed appendicitis because the symptoms tend to mirror-image each other), I got into ER a few hours after it popped (equivalent to a burst appendix), but before the peritonitis had a chance to really take hold. Whos We? I embrace imperfection. Platt New! They throw that stuff out there expecting the sheeple to believe them. Yes marketing is creating more customers, and increased investment in distribution helps to deliver the product and access to more markets; but a shifting of resource allocation and cost-cutting measures are needed. Or is FIEC the T4G/TGC/9Marks beachhead in the kingdom? Parkinsons Law (Wiki article here for any Wartburgers at a loose end with 5 minutes to spare). Full time pastor.TGC chairman. Im not there yet. Platt, unfortunately, was merely a podcast in person. The salary thing is often a deflection. If so, Im so sorry to hear it. Everything is for show to make the congregation think theres actual ministry going on. They care about as much about the Bible as they do about the truth, about justice, about the Fruits of the Spirit, about Jesus, and about those who have been made in His image. There might be potential liability issues should someone not a part of the church be injured on the premises, perhaps certain events wouldnt be covered under their policy, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the tax treatment of a 501(c)(3). Does Public Broadcasting Need Your Tote Bag Deep into the churchs 1 My concordance doesnt include an entry for paid pastor. The legal profession just balks. Find a pastor who will do your funeral and not punt it to the third tier pastoral staff. Im afraid Lon wanted out and this was the easy road. But I know I cant do that forever. So if it is the means then why are people upset when Platt says that people need to get with it regarding the means? But at some point, arent we supposed to grow up into some degree of self-reliance, as far as the scriptures are concerned? Lift up your voice mightily, O Christian, bearer of Jesus good news; lift it up, do not fear. I greatly admire the health in Christ you so earnestly convey and demonstrate. It seems Billy Graham has the gift of evangelism (gifts of the Spirit to the church, Rom. If we hope to reveal the worth of Gods love to others, what has it cost us? Our collective gathering together has far more impact than the individual can judge from our own vantage point. I butted heads with him over working moms and finally over Radical, and after 4 years of having those concerns ignored, my family joined the hundreds of people who left Brook Hills during his time in the pulpit. Jesus called us friends not pets. Just like the Priests of the old Egyptian gods. These pastors do a lot of fund raising in the USA, selling themselves as making a huge impact on the muslim world for the cause of Christ. While he was at Brook Hills it was practically heresy to disagree with David.). __. Are you prepared to refute the lies of Cultural Marxism spewed by many of todays leading evangelical pastors and authors? Yeah, church life wont keep theologians in check. The great irony is that, in their vast contempt for women, these young men are haplessly led (like an ox going to the slaughter) astray by preaching itself, the true adulteress in this scenario. That seems super deceptive to me. Week in the hospital with IV antibiotics and drains (after a few days on NG tube and Foley no fun), then recuperating at home for a month on a restricted diet. First things first, since were lost in all the re-definitions while keeping old labels. These pastors faithfully execute the responsibilities of their jobs. I dont know Platt. I met a lady online and we agreed to meet at McLean Bible Church, where she attended, for their morning service and then have lunch afterward. Was Peter a pastor to these souls or just a talking head? But the salvation of the world has a purpose beyond that. Nor do they ever get any deeper. The same is true of the underground church today, especially in China.
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