Well, I have one thing just out of curiosity ROBERT: As we were winding up with our home inspectors, Alvin and Larry Ubell, we thought maybe we should run this metaphor idea by them. Once you understand that the trees are all connected to each other, they're all signaling each other, sending food and resources to each other, it has the feel, the flavor, of something very similar. No. It just kept curling and curling. Anyone who's ever had a plant in a window knows that. Why waste hot water? Along with a home-inspection duo, a science writer, and some enterprising scientists at Princeton University, we dig into the work of evolutionary ecologist Monica Gagliano, who turns our brain-centered worldview on its head through a series of clever . Yeah, absolutely. Turns the fan on, turns the light on, and the plant turns and leans that way. There's this whole other world right beneath my feet. And might as well start the story back when she was a little girl. So if all a tree could do was split air to get carbon, you'd have a tree the size of a tulip. What do you mean? JENNIFER FRAZER: The fungi needs sugar to build their bodies, the same way that we use our food to build our bodies. MONICA GAGLIANO: Yeah. When we last left off, I'm just saying you just said intelligence. Pulled out a is that a root of some sort? So there seemed to be, under the ground, this fungal freeway system connecting one tree to the next to the next to the next. And is it as dramatic in the opposite direction? And the plant still went to the place where the pipe was not even in the dirt? ROBERT: And the classic case of this is if you go back a few centuries ago, someone noticed that plants have sex. "I'm under attack!". One time, the plant literally flew out of the pot and upended with roots exposed. Yeah. It involves a completely separate organism I haven't mentioned yet. Are going to make me rethink my stance on plants. That was my reaction. So after much trial and error with click and hums and buzzes She found that the one stimulus that would be perfect was A little fan. Pics! But let me just -- let me give it a try. And she wondered whether that was true. This happens to a lot of people. And I do that in my brain. SUZANNE SIMARD: And those chemicals will then move through the network and warn neighboring trees or seedlings. But over the next two decades, we did experiment after experiment after experiment that verified that story. JENNIFER FRAZER: Into which she put these sensitive plants. And she goes into that darkened room with all the pea plants. And so of course, that was only the beginning. I mean, you're out there in the forest and you see all these trees, and you think they're individuals just like animals, right? SUZANNE SIMARD: Not a basset hound, but he was a beagle. SUZANNE SIMARD: And, you know, my job was to track how these new plantations would grow. ROBERT: So you can -- you can see this is like a game of telephone. In my brain. ROBERT: Monica's work has actually gotten quite a bit of attention from other plant biologists. MONICA GAGLIANO: So after the first few, the plants already realized that that was not necessary. For this part of our broadcast, I'd like to begin by imagining a tall, dark, dense, green forest. JENNIFER FRAZER: Apparently, she built some sort of apparatus. That's amazing and fantastic. And his idea was to see if he could condition these dogs to associate that food would be coming from the sound of a bell. Enough of that! So the -- this branching pot thing. It was like, "Oh, I might disturb my plants!" She says it was like this moment where she realizes, "Oh, my God! PETER LANDGREN: Look at that. And then they came back And they found that most of the springtails were dead. We waiting for the leaves to, you know, stop folding. That's okay. It's an integral part of DNA. How much longer? It's as if the individual trees were somehow thinking ahead to the needs of the whole forest. Earn PetSmart Treats loyalty points with every purchase and get members-only discounts. ROBERT: No, I -- we kept switching rooms because we weren't sure whether you want it to be in the high light or weak light or some light or no light. Support Radiolab today at Radiolab.org/donate. There was a healthier community when they were mixed and I wanted to figure out why. It's a -- it's a three-pronged answer. I'm a research associate professor at the University of Sydney. ROBERT: Oh, so it says to the newer, the healthier trees, "Here's my food. But white, translucent and hairy, sort of. Just a boring set of twigs. So they can't move. MONICA GAGLIANO: Well, I created these horrible contraptions. Fan, light, lean. I have even -- I can go better than even that. ROBERT: She says what will happen under the ground is that the fungal tubes will stretch up toward the tree roots, and then they'll tell the tree SUZANNE SIMARD: With their chemical language. ROY HALLING: Like, I say, it's early in the season. And so they have this trading system with trees. LARRY UBELL: I'm not giving my age. But it didn't happen. So it's predicting something to arrive. Pics! It should have some. He's not a huge fan of. So that's where these -- the scientists from Princeton come in: Peter, Sharon and Aatish. Like, would they figure it out faster this time? Actually that's good advice for anyone. No, Summer is a real person and her last name happens to be spelled R-A-Y-N-E. So what do we have in our ears that we use to hear sound? She's done three experiments, and I think if I tell you about what she has done, you -- even you -- will be provoked into thinking that plants can do stuff you didn't imagine, dream they could do. ALVIN UBELL: How much longer? These sensitive hairs he argues, would probably be able to feel that tiny difference. Different kind of signal traveling through the soil? I don't know if that was the case for your plants. You know, they talk about how honeybee colonies are sort of superorganisms, because each individual bee is sort of acting like it's a cell in a larger body. ROBERT: Now the plants if they were truly dumb, they'd go 50/50. This is by the way, what her entire family had done, her dad and her grandparents. Is it, like -- is it a plant? So Monica moves the fans to a new place one more time. Picasso! So after the first few, the plants already realized that that was not necessary. So Pavlov started by getting some dogs and some meat and a bell. Gone. I was like, "Oh, my God! JENNIFER FRAZER: They had learned to associate the sound of the bell ROBERT: Which has, you know, for dogs has nothing to do with meat. JENNIFER FRAZER: Apparently she built some sort of apparatus. ROBERT: They're father and son. No. And it's more expensive. What a fungus does is it -- it hunts, it mines, it fishes, and it strangles. We dropped. Five, four, three, two, one, drop! It's okay, puppy. That is definitely cool. ROBERT: Isn't that what you do? It's not leaking. And we were all like, "Oh, my goodness! ROBERT: The fungus were literally sucking the nitrogen out of the springtails, and it was too late to get away. ROBERT: She found that the one stimulus that would be perfect was MONICA GAGLIANO: A little fan. One time, the plant literally flew out of the pot and upended with roots exposed. JENNIFER FRAZER: Plants are really underrated. JAD: That is cool. ROBERT: Two very different options for our plant. Wait. But when we look at the below ground structure, it looks so much like a brain physically, and now that we're starting to understand how it works, we're going, wow, there's so many parallels. Along with a home-inspection duo, a science writer, and some enterprising scientists at Princeton University, we dig into the work of evolutionary ecologist Monica Gagliano, who turns our brain-centered worldview on its head through a series of clever experiments that show plants doing things we never would've imagined. We were so inconsistent, so clumsy, that the plants were smart to keep playing it safe and closing themselves up. SUZANNE SIMARD: You know, I don't completely understand. JAD: Well, okay. Except in this case instead of a chair, they've got a little plant-sized box. They can go north, south, east, west, whatever. ROBERT: She says a timber company would move in and clear cut an entire patch of forest, and then plant some new trees. Finally, one time he did not bring the meat, but he rang the bell. Oh, one more thing. LARRY UBELL: Me first. Along with a home-inspection duo, a science writer, and some enterprising scientists at Princeton University, wedig into the work of evolutionaryecologist Monica Gagliano, who turns ourbrain-centered worldview on its head through a series of clever experiments that show plants doing things we never would've imagined. It's doing like a triple double axel backflip or something into the sky. ROBERT: I'm not gonna tell you. Kind of even like, could there be a brain, or could there be ears or, you know, just sort of like going off the deep end there. SUZANNE SIMARD: Jigs emerged. ROBERT: So you are related and you're both in the plumbing business? ROBERT: These sensitive hairs he argues, would probably be able to feel that tiny difference. JENNIFER FRAZER: As soon as it senses that a grazing animal is nearby ROBERT: If a nosy deer happens to bump into it, the mimosa plant ROBERT: Curls all its leaves up against its stem. A forest can feel like a place of great stillness and quiet. SUZANNE SIMARD: He'd fallen in. They curve, sometimes they branch. SUZANNE SIMARD: And we were able to map the network. ROBERT: Peering down at the plants under the red glow of her headlamp. ], [JENNIFER FRAZER: This is Jennifer Frazer, and I'm a freelance science writer and blogger of The Artful Amoeba at Scientific American. ], Matt Kielty, Robert Krulwich, Annie McEwen, Andy Mills, Latif Nasser, Malissa O'Donnell. To remember? ], [JENNIFER FRAZER: And I am a science writer. JAD: Wait. It's 10 o'clock and I have to go. It's like -- it's just a massive mat of intertwining exposed roots that you could walk across and never fall through. SUZANNE SIMARD: He was a, not a wiener dog. They were actually JENNIFER FRAZER: Tubes. I go out and I thought there's no one here on Sunday afternoon. They still remembered. I guess you could call it a mimosa plant drop box. And I do that in my brain. Well, when I was a kid, my family spent every summer in the forest. ROBERT: One of the spookiest examples of this Suzanne mentioned, is an experiment that she and her team did where they discovered that if a forest is warming up, which is happening all over the world, temperatures are rising, you have trees in this forest that are hurting. The water is still in there. And the pea plants are left alone to sit in this quiet, dark room feeling the breeze. So they might remember even for a much longer time than 28 days. ROBERT: So she takes the plants, she puts them into the parachute drop, she drops them. Let us say you have a yard in front of your house. So otherwise they can't photosynthesize. The bell, the meat and the salivation. That's a parade I'll show up for. ROBERT: No, I -- we kept switching rooms because we weren't sure whether you want it to be in the high light or weak light or some light or no light. ROBERT: Five, four, three, two, one, drop! To try to calculate how much springtail nitrogen is traveling back to the tree. ANNIE: Yeah. SUZANNE SIMARD: And there was a lot of skepticism at the time. Yes, because she knew that scientists had proposed years before, that maybe there's an underground economy that exists among trees that we can't see. Have you hugged your houseplant today? The glass is not broken. ", So the deer's like, "Oh, well. And I mean, like, really loved the outdoors. I'm a research associate professor at the University of Sydney. ROBERT: Oh. Yeah. Ring, meat, eat. So she decided to conduct her experiment. April 8, 2018 By thelandconnection. Walker Wolff. MONICA GAGLIANO: It's a very biased view that humans have in particular towards others. JENNIFER FRAZER: They had learned to associate the sound of the bell ROBERT: Which has, you know, for dogs has nothing to do with meat. And then Monica would ROBERT: Just about, you know, seven or eight inches. And the salivation equivalent was the tilt of the plant? They need light to grow. Sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh. ], [JENNIFER FRAZER: With help from Amanda Aronczyk, Shima Oliaee ], [LARRY UBELL: Niles Hughes, Jake Arlow, Nigar Fatali ], [JENNIFER FRAZER: Phoebe Wang and Katie Ferguson. It would be all random. JAD: Where would the -- a little plant even store a memory? That's what she says. From just bears throwing fish on the ground? ROBERT: Science writer Jen Frazer gave us the kind of the standard story. ALVIN UBELL: How much longer? So she decided to conduct her experiment. They may have this intelligence, maybe we're just not smart enough yet to figure it out. With when they actually saw and smelled and ate meat. Peering down at the plants under the red glow of her headlamp. JENNIFER FRAZER: And his idea was to see if he could condition these dogs to associate that food would be coming from the sound of a bell. Same as the Pavlov. ROBERT: There's -- on the science side, there's a real suspicion of anything that's anthropomorphizing a plant. Let him talk. JAD: It's like every time I close my eyes, you're coming at it from a different direction. I mean, what? On the fifth day, they take a look and discover most of the roots, a majority of the roots were heading toward the sound of water. We've all seen houseplants do that, right? ], This is Jennifer Frazer, and I'm a freelance science writer and blogger of The Artful Amoeba at Scientific American. Hopefully I tied that into cannabis well enough to not get removed. If there was only the fan, would the plant After three days of this training regime, it is now time to test the plants with just the fan, no light. Sugar. . Jul 30, 2016. Let him talk. JENNIFER FRAZER: With when they actually saw and smelled and ate meat. ROBERT: So we figured look, if it's this easy and this matter of fact, we should be able to do this ourselves and see it for ourselves. I mean, you've heard that. On our knees with our noses in the ground, and we can't see anything. And again. Charts. When I was a little kid, I would be in the forest and I'd just eat the forest floor. Because this peculiar plant has a -- has a surprising little skill. ROBERT: Monica says what she does do is move around the world with a general feeling of ROBERT: What if? Ring, meat, eat. Both aiming at the pea plant from the same direction, and the pea plant leans toward them. ROBERT: They remembered what had happened three days before, that dropping didn't hurt, that they didn't have to fold up. Birds, please. Today, Robert drags Jad along ona parade for the surprising feats of brainless plants. ROBERT: They're sort of flea-sized and they spend lots of time munching leaves on the forest floor. And I need a bird, a lot of birds, actually. So that voice belongs to Aatish Bhatia, who is with Princeton University's Council on Science and Technology. And it's that little, little bit of moisture that the plant will somehow sense. No, I don't because she may come up against it, people who think that intelligence is unique to humans. So Monica moves the fans to a new place one more time. And the tree happens to be a weeping willow. Monica's work has actually gotten quite a bit of attention from other plant biologists. The bell, the meat and the salivation. And she goes on to argue that had we been a little bit more steady and a little bit more consistent, the plants would have learned and would have remembered the lesson. He's the only springtail with a trench coat and a fedora. This is like metaphor is letting in the light as opposed to shutting down the blinds. Into which she put these sensitive plants. Let him talk. Like, the tree was, like, already doing that stuff by itself, but it's the fungus that's doing that stuff? Whatever. ROBERT: So we figured look, if it's this easy and this matter of fact, we should be able to do this ourselves and see it for ourselves. ROBERT: That's a -- learning is something I didn't think plants could do. They just don't like to hear words like "mind" or "hear" or "see" or "taste" for a plant, because it's too animal and too human. And if you just touch it ROBERT: You can actually watch this cascade ROBERT: Where all the leaves close in, like do do do do do do. LARRY UBELL: It's not leaking. They need light to grow. Do you really need a brain to sense the world around you? ROY HALLING: The last kind of part of the root gets tangled just around the edge. They would salivate and then eat the meat. ROBERT: She says the tree can only suck up what it needs through these -- mostly through the teeny tips of its roots, and that's not enough bandwidth. So maybe the root hairs, which are always found right at the growing tips of plant roots, maybe plant roots are like little ears. Like the bell for the dog. ROBERT: She determined that you can pick a little computer fan and blow it on a pea plant for pretty much ever and the pea plant would be utterly indifferent to the whole thing. Or it's just the vibration of the pipe that's making it go toward it. And then they do stuff. I found a little water! So that's where these -- the scientists from Princeton come in: Peter, Sharon and Aatish. No boink anymore. So there is some water outside of the pipe. And after not a whole lot of drops, the plant, she noticed, stopped closing its leaves. [laughs] When I write a blog post, my posts that get the least traffic guaranteed are the plant posts. Because I have an appointment. Okay? And while it took us a while to see it, apparently these little threads in the soil. And again. ROBERT: No. That something bad is happening. They still remembered. ROBERT: Like, I don't understand -- learning, as far as I understand it, is something that involves memory and storage. ROBERT: A little while back, I had a rather boisterous conversation with these two guys. They start producing chemicals that taste really bad. Very similar to the sorts of vitamins and minerals that humans need. No, I actually, like even this morning it's already like poof! Verified account Protected Tweets @ Protected Tweets @ And I've been in the construction industry ever since I'm about 16 years old. JENNIFER FRAZER: It is! So they might remember even for a much longer time than 28 days. But it didn't happen. ], [JENNIFER FRAZER: Dylan Keefe is our Director of Sound Design. He was a -- what was he? Same as the Pavlov. MONICA GAGLIANO: Exactly, which is pretty amazing. It's definitely crazy. Just the sound of it? MONICA GAGLIANO: Exactly. So he brought them some meat. So you are related and you're both in the plumbing business? And then someone has to count. Couple minutes go by And all of a sudden we could hear this barking and yelping. In 1997, a couple of scientists wrote a paper which describes how fungi JENNIFER FRAZER: Have developed a system for mining. Me first. I can scream my head off if I want to. /locations/california/culver-city/5399-sepulveda-blvd-bank-atm/ ROBERT: What's its job? -- they spring way up high in the air. The part where the water pipe was, the pipe was on the outside of the pot? So she takes the plants, she puts them into the parachute drop, she drops them. They designed from scratch a towering parachute drop in blue translucent Lego pieces. It's condensation. So what they're saying is even if she's totally sealed the pipe so there's no leak at all, the difference in temperature will create some condensation on the outside. It's condensation. Then she takes the little light and the little fan and moves them to the other side of the plant. It was like -- it was like a huge network. I know, I know. Then Monica hoists the plant back up again and drops it again. Like, why would the trees need a freeway system underneath the ground to connect? Today, Robert drags Jad along on a parade for the surprising feats of brainless plants. And the pea plants are left alone to sit in this quiet, dark room feeling the breeze. What is it? Well, okay. And she goes on to argue that had we been a little bit more steady and a little bit more consistent, the plants would have learned and would have remembered the lesson. Hey, it's okay. And, you know, my job was to track how these new plantations would grow. Well, I have one thing just out of curiosity As we were winding up with our home inspectors, Alvin and Larry Ubell, we thought maybe we should run this metaphor idea by them. We need to take a break first, but when we come back, the parade that I want you to join will come and swoop you up and carry you along in a flow of enthusiasm. Exactly. This is Ashley Harding from St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada. The Douglas fir became diseased and -- and died. Yeah, it might run out of fuel. They have to -- have to edit in this together. I don't know. LARRY UBELL: Yes, we are related. ROBERT: And this? But they do have root hairs. ROBERT: Picture one of those parachute drops that they have at the -- at state fairs or amusement parks where you're hoisted up to the top. Like so -- and I think that, you know, the whole forest then, there's an intelligence there that's beyond just the species. Oh, yeah. Now the plants if they were truly dumb they'd go 50/50. Like, as in the fish. Isn't that what you do? You know, one of those little jeweler's glasses? I don't know. ROBERT: To try to calculate how much springtail nitrogen is traveling back to the tree. LARRY UBELL: That -- that's -- that's interesting. Eventually over a period of time, it'll crack the pipe like a nutcracker. Oh. Dedicated to enhancing the lives of the citizens in the communities it serves by responding to their need to be engaged, educated, entertained & enlightened. Picture one of those parachute drops that they have at the -- at state fairs or amusement parks where you're hoisted up to the top. ROBERT: Remember I told you how trees make sugar? Are you, like, aggressively looking around for -- like, do you wake up in the morning saying, "Now what can I get a plant to do that reminds me of my dog, or reminds me of a bear, or reminds me of a bee?". Well, maybe. It turns that carbon into sugar, which it uses to make its trunk and its branches, anything thick you see on a tree is just basically air made into stuff. They look just like mining tunnels. They're all out in the forest. ROBERT: That there was a kind of a moral objection to thinking it this way. ROBERT: Huh. JENNIFER FRAZER: That something bad is happening. Find us at 10900 W Jefferson Blvd or call (310) 390-5120 to learn more. Well, it depends on who you ask. It's soaks in sunshine, and it takes CO2, carbon dioxide, and it's splits it in half. This assignment pairs with the RadioLab podcast; specifically the Smarty Plants episode. ALVIN UBELL: The glass is not broken. Is that what -- is that what this? I'm a research associate professor at the University of Sydney. As abundant as what was going on above ground. Maybe not with the helmet, but yeah. JENNIFER FRAZER: Then he would bring them the meat and he would ring a bell. Fan, light, lean. You're doing the -- like, okay first it was the roots under the ground all connected into a whole hive thing. Apparently, she built some sort of apparatus. MONICA GAGLIANO: Yeah, plants really like light, you know? ROBERT: And look, and beyond that there are forests, there are trees that the scientists have found where up to 75 percent of the nitrogen in the tree turns out to be fish food. You know, they talk about how honeybee colonies are sort of superorganisms, because each individual bee is sort of acting like it's a cell in a larger body. In my brain. Big thanks to Aatish Bhatia, to Sharon De La Cruz and to Peter Landgren at Princeton University's Council on Science and Technology. I don't know if you're a bank or if you're an -- so it's not necessarily saying, "Give it to the new guy." Princeton University News Transformations: Students find creativity at intersection of art and engineering. I mean, couldn't it just be like that? Because after dropping them 60 times, she then shook them left to right and they instantly folded up again. They definitely don't have a brain. So just give me some birds. MONICA GAGLIANO: Pretty much like the concept of Pavlov with his dog applied. So there is some water outside of the pipe. Radiolab. But they do have root hairs. That's a -- learning is something I didn't think plants could do. LINCOLN TAIZ: It's a very interesting experiment, and I really want to see whether it's correct or not. The roots of this tree of course can go any way they want to go. Eventually over a period of time, it'll crack the pipe like a nutcracker. You need the nutrients that are in the soil. JAD: It was curling each time when it ROBERT: Every time. But what -- how would a plant hear something? Picasso! LARRY UBELL: It's not leaking. And it can reach these little packets of minerals and mine them. It's as if the individual trees were somehow thinking ahead to the needs of the whole forest. There's -- they have found salmon in tree rings. LARRY UBELL: Or it's just the vibration of the pipe that's making it go toward it. So the fungus is giving the tree the minerals. And again. Hi. So it's not that it couldn't fold up, it's just that during the dropping, it learned that it didn't need to. So no plants were actually hurt in this experiment. JAD: Yeah, and hopefully not be liquefied by the fungus beneath us. Just read about plants having brains and doing things that we honestly do not expect them. ROBERT: And some of them, this is Lincoln Taiz LINCOLN TAIZ: I'm a professor emeritus of plant biology at UC Santa Cruz. LATIF: Yeah. Couple minutes go by SUZANNE SIMARD: And all of a sudden we could hear this barking and yelping. So we are going to meet a beautiful little plant called a mimosa pudica, which is a perfectly symmetrical plant with leaves on either side of a central stem. JENNIFER FRAZER: From a particular direction. Exactly. They don't do well in warm temperatures and their needles turn all sickly yellow. Well, I have one thing just out of curiosity As we were winding up with our home inspectors, Alvin and Larry Ubell, we thought maybe we should run this metaphor idea by them. These guys are actually doing it." Pics! But we are in the home inspection business. ROBERT: Truth is, I think on this point she's got a -- she's right. ROBERT: This happens to a lot of people. In this case, a little blue LED light. No, it's far more exciting than that. There's not a leak in the glass. Are going to make me rethink my stance on plants. So he brought them some meat. LARRY UBELL: I'm not giving my age. So I don't have an issue with that. LARRY UBELL: That -- that would be an interesting ALVIN UBELL: Don't interrupt. ], Test the outer edges of what you think you know. ], Our staff includes Simon Adler, Brenna Farrow, David Gebel. To remember? ROBERT: But once again I kind of wondered if -- since the plant doesn't have a brain or even neurons to connect the idea of light and wind or whatever, where would they put that information? ROBERT: Jennifer says that what the tubes do is they worm their way back and forth through the soil until they bump into some pebbles. It's kind of like a cold glass sitting on your desk, and there's always a puddle at the bottom. Annie McEwen, Stephanie Tam, our intern, we decided all to go to check it out for ourselves, this thing I'm not telling you about. ROBERT: Oh, well that's a miracle. They sort of put them all together in a dish, and then they walked away. He's holding his hand maybe a foot off the ground. And again. I'm 84. Do you have the lens? They're not experiencing extra changes, for example. And we saw this in the Bronx. And so of course, that was only the beginning. When people first began thinking about these things, and we're talking in the late 1800s, they had no idea what they were or what they did, but ultimately they figured out that these things were very ancient, because if you look at 400-million-year-old fossils of some of the very first plants You can see, even in the roots of these earliest land plants And then later, scientists finally looked at these things under much more powerful microscopes, and realized the threads weren't threads, really. Would they stay in the tree, or would they go down to the roots? They may have this intelligence, maybe we're just not smart enough yet to figure it out. They have to -- have to edit in this together. In 1997, a couple of scientists wrote a paper which describes how fungi Jennifer says that what the tubes do is they worm their way back and forth through the soil until they bump into some pebbles. Jad and Robert, they are split on this one. Tubes. ROBERT: That there was a kind of a moral objection to thinking this way. And it can reach these little packets of minerals and mine them. So the roots can go either left or to the right. I just listened to this Radiolab episode called "Smarty Plants". ROBERT: She took some plants, put them in a pot that restricted the roots so they could only go in one of just two directions, toward the water pipe or away from the water pipe. And it's that little, little bit of moisture that the plant will somehow sense. ROBERT: There's -- on the science side, there's a real suspicion of anything that's anthropomorphizing a plant. The whole thing immediately closes up and makes it look like, "Oh, there's no plant here. JAD: It was curling each time when it ROBERT: Every time. But what I do know is that the fact that the plant doesn't have a brain doesn't -- doesn't a priori say that the plants can't do something. JENNIFER FRAZER: Right? JENNIFER FRAZER: So Pavlov started by getting some dogs and some meat and a bell. Remember that the roots of these plants can either go one direction towards the sound of water in a pipe, or the other direction to the sound of silence. ROBERT: She's a forestry professor at the University of British Columbia. ], [JENNIFER FRAZER: Our staff includes Simon Adler, Brenna Farrow, David Gebel. What -- I forgot to ask you something important. They learned something. And all of a sudden, one of them says, "Oh, oh, oh, oh! Do you really need a brain to sense the world around you? But this one plays ROBERT: So she's got her plants in the pot, and we're going to now wait to see what happens. And they still remembered. LARRY UBELL: Good. That is actually a clue in what turns out to be a deep, deep mystery. That apparently -- jury's still out -- are going to make me rethink my stance on plants. [laughs]. But we don't know. ROBERT: And we dropped it once and twice. Like, they don't have ears or a brain or anything like, they couldn't hear like we hear. [ASHLEY: Hi. ROBERT: How do you mean? And right in the middle of the yard is a tree. ROBERT: And her family included a dog named Jigs. So I don't have an issue with that. Why waste hot water? Both aiming at the pea plant from the same direction, and the pea plant leans toward them. ROBERT: The plants would always grow towards the light. So we know that Douglas fir will take -- a dying Douglas fir will send carbon to a neighboring Ponderosa pine. Yours is back of your house, but let's make it in the front. Big thanks to Aatish Bhatia, to Sharon De La Cruz and to Peter Landgren at Princeton University's Council on Science and Technology. But let me just -- let me give it a try. SUZANNE SIMARD: They start producing chemicals that taste really bad. So it wasn't touching the dirt at all. Now, you might think that the plant sends out roots in every direction. I was, like, floored. ROBERT: And he starts digging with his rake at the base of this tree. Enough of that! Favorite 46 Add to Repost 7. Five, four, three, two, one, drop! SUZANNE SIMARD: This is getting so interesting, but I have ROBERT: Unfortunately, right at that point Suzanne basically ran off to another meeting. So otherwise they can't photosynthesize. This is the plant and pipe mystery. I mean, I think there's something to that. The light and the fan were always coming from the same direction. MONICA GAGLIANO: Like for example, my plants were all in environment-controlled rooms, which is not a minor detail. ROBERT: This final thought. And I'm wondering whether Monica is gonna run into, as she tries to make plants more animal-like, whether she's just going to run into this malice from the scientific -- I'm just wondering, do you share any of that? Picture one of those parachute drops that they have at the -- at state fairs or amusement parks where you're hoisted up to the top. I don't know where you were that day. And it begins to look a lot like an airline flight map, but even more dense. Radiolab is supported in part by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, enhancing public understanding of Science and Technology in the modern world. So its resources, its legacy will move into the mycorrhizal network into neighboring trees. ROBERT: And you can actually see this happen. MONICA GAGLIANO: I don't know. As abundant as what was going on above ground. We are the principals of Accurate Building Inspectors of Brooklyn, New York. This episode was produced by Annie McEwen. Why is this network even there? Again. And what she discovered is that all these trees, all these trees that were of totally different species were sharing their food underground. But then, scientists did an experiment where they gave some springtails some fungus to eat. "I'm in the neighborhood. And so I don't have a problem with that. But no, they're all linked to each other! It's almost as if the forest is acting as an organism itself. Sugar. This is Ashley Harding from St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada. And so now we're down there. I remember going in at the uni on a Sunday afternoon. Sep 28, 2020 - Radiolab is on a curiosity bender. I'm a professor emeritus of plant biology at UC Santa Cruz. ROBERT: Let us say you have a yard in front of your house. ALVIN UBELL: And I've been in the construction industry ever since I'm about 16 years old. And every day that goes by, I have less of an issue from the day before. SUZANNE SIMARD: Yes, that seems to be what happens. Image credits: Photo Credit: Flickred! That's a parade I'll show up for. The plants -- the plants stopped -- what is it they did? The plants have to keep pulling their leaves up and they just get tired. There are multiple ways of doing one thing, right? [laughs]. They need light to grow. The magnolia tree outside of our house got into the sewer pipes, reached its tentacles into our house and busted the sewage pipe. This happens to a lot of people. Monica thought about that and designed a different experiment. And we can move it up, and we can drop it. ROBERT: And so now we're down there. Monica's work has actually gotten quite a bit of attention from other plant biologists. The water is still in there. If she's going to do this experiment, most likely she's going to use cold water. So we went back to Monica. ROBERT: That's a -- learning is something I didn't think plants could do. But instead of dogs, she had pea plants in a dark room. That is cool. Like for example, my plants were all in environment-controlled rooms, which is not a minor detail. Because the only reason why the experiment turned out to be 28 days is because I ran out of time. Now, can you -- can you imagine what we did wrong? Pretty much like the concept of Pavlov with his dog applied. They have to -- have to edit in this together. So this is our plant dropper. SUZANNE SIMARD: They can't photosynthesize. So I don't have a problem. JENNIFER FRAZER: Finally, one time he did not bring the meat, but he rang the bell. We waiting for the leaves to, you know, stop folding. Jad and Robert, theyare split on this one. So we went back to Monica. So no plants were actually hurt in this experiment. I mean, I think there's something to that. A tree needs something else. I don't know if that was the case for your plants. They're father and son. Well, you can see the white stuff is the fungus. Here's the water.". But after five days, she found that 80% of the time, the plants went -- or maybe chose -- to head toward the dry pipe that has water in it. Or No. It's gone. ROBERT: So you think that that this -- you think this is a hubris corrector? They remembered what had happened three days before, that dropping didn't hurt, that they didn't have to fold up. Actually, Monica's dog leads perfectly into her third experiment, which again will be with a plant. ROBERT: So these trees were basically covered with bags that were then filled with radioactive gas. The point here is that the scale of this is so vast, and we didn't know this until very, very recently. And I know lots of kids do that, but I was especially ROBERT: I'm sorry? I spoke to her with our producer Latif Nasser, and she told us that this -- this network has developed a kind of -- a nice, punny sort of name. Bye everybody. There are multiple ways of doing one thing, right? ROBERT: And the salivation equivalent was the tilt of the plant? Different kind of signal traveling through the soil? It's just getting started. Give it to the new -- well, that's what she saying. I think there are some cases where romanticizing something could possibly lead you to some interesting results. I don't think Monica knows the answer to that, but she does believe that, you know, that we humans We are a little obsessed with the brain. JAD: The part where the water pipe was, the pipe was on the outside of the pot? let's do it! SUZANNE SIMARD: Like, nitrogen and phosphorus. And if you go to too many rock concerts, you can break these hairs and that leads to permanent hearing loss, which is bad. No. If you get too wrapped up in your poetic metaphor, you're very likely to be misled and to over-interpret the data. ]. Or even learn? Fan, light, lean. She's done three experiments, and I think if I tell you about what she has done, you -- even you -- will be provoked into thinking that plants can do stuff you didn't imagine, dream they could do. Yours is back of your house, but let's make it in the front. SUZANNE SIMARD: It's just this incredible communications network that, you know, people had no idea about in the past, because we couldn't -- didn't know how to look. To remember? So you're like a metaphor cop with a melty heart. So they didn't. You should definitely go out and check out her blog, The Artful Amoeba, especially to the posts, the forlorn ones about plants. I think there is something like a nervous system in the forest, because it's the same sort of large network of nodes sending signals to one another. And I'm wondering whether Monica is gonna run into, as she tries to make plants more animal-like, whether she's just gonna run into this malice from the scientific -- I'm just wondering, do you share any of that? JENNIFER FRAZER: With when they actually saw and smelled and ate meat. St. Andrew's Magazine Dr. Aatish Bhatia Inspires Students & Faculty. No. MONICA GAGLIANO: Like for example, my plants were all in environment-controlled rooms, which is not a minor detail. JAD: That apparently -- jury's still out -- are going to make me rethink my stance on plants. Jad and Robert, they are split on this one. And it's more expensive. Radiolab will continue in a moment. Robert Krulwich. I'll put it down in my fungi. The tree will wrap its roots around that pipe. One of the roots just happens to bump into a water pipe and says -- sends a signal to all the others, "Come over here. ROBERT: What happened to you didn't happen to us. They stopped folding up. And so we are under the impression or I would say the conviction that the brain is the center of the universe, and -- and if you have a brain and a nervous system you are good and you can do amazing stuff. So, okay. Absolutely not. That apparently -- jury's still out. He shoves away the leaves, he shoves away the topsoil. We pulled Jigs out and we threw him in the lake with a great deal of yelping and cursing and swearing, and Jigs was cleaned off. Add to My Podcasts. She's not gonna use hot water because you don't want to cook your plants, you know? ], With help from Alexandra Leigh Young, Jackson Roach and Charu Sinha. Then Monica hoists the plant back up again and drops it again. She's working in the timber industry at the time. All in all, turns out one tree was connected to 47 other trees all around it. So what they're saying is even if she's totally sealed the pipe so there's no leak at all, the difference in temperature will create some condensation on the outside. I mean, I think there's something to that. MONICA GAGLIANO: All of them know already what to do. I was like, "Oh, my God! ROBERT: The point here is that the scale of this is so vast, and we didn't know this until very, very recently. I remember going in at the uni on a Sunday afternoon. So she's saying they remembered for almost a month? They're switched on. ROBERT: So the roots can go either left or to the right. And her family included a dog named Jigs. ROBERT: And right in the middle of the yard is a tree. Was it possible that maybe the plants correctly responded by not opening, because something really mad was happening around it and it's like, "This place is not safe.". Like, from the trees perspective, how much of their sugar are they giving to the fungus? I am the blogger of The Artful Amoeba at Scientific American. Well, I asked Suzanne about that. JENNIFER FRAZER: I am the blogger of The Artful Amoeba at Scientific American. And so I don't have a problem with that. ], [LARRY UBELL: Radiolab was created by Jad Abumrad and is produced by Soren Wheeler. Or maybe slower? Not cannabis related specifically, but can shed some light on how our plants react to the environment which we can use to better the health of our ladies! And so I was really excited. So that's where these -- the scientists from Princeton come in: Peter, Sharon and Aatish. So they just went right for the MP3 fake water, not even the actual water? And that's just the beginning. 2018. Today, Robert drags Jad along on a parade for the surprising feats of brainless plants. And then I would cover them in plastic bags. And does it change my place in the world? Because the only reason why the experiment turned out to be 28 days is because I ran out of time. In this case, a little blue LED light. So now, they had the radioactive particles inside their trunks and their branches. ROBERT: Yeah. And we can move it up, and we can drop it. ROBERT: This happens to a lot of people. One time, the plant literally flew out of the pot and upended with roots exposed. They're sort of flea-sized and they spend lots of time munching leaves on the forest floor. MONICA GAGLIANO: Yeah, tested it in my lab. Me first. ROBERT: And so we're up there in this -- in this old forest with this guy. And his idea was to see if he could condition these dogs to associate that food would be coming from the sound of a bell. Science writer Jen Frazer gave us kind of the standard story. ROBERT: Suzanne says she's not sure if the tree is running the show and saying like, you know, "Give it to the new guy." LARRY UBELL: You got somewhere to go? Because the only reason why the experiment turned out to be 28 days is because I ran out of time. So ROBERT: He says something about that's the wrong season. ROBERT: Of the tree's sugar goes down to the mushroom team? The whole thing immediately closes up and makes it look like, `` Oh my. Santa Cruz biology at UC Santa Cruz that seems to be misled and to Peter Landgren Princeton. 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Sloan Foundation, enhancing public understanding science. Water because you do n't do well in warm temperatures and their branches a. The root gets tangled just around the edge, could n't it just like! Monica 's work has actually gotten quite a bit of attention from other plant biologists north,,! Of totally different species were sharing their food underground says, `` Oh, well tree the of. 'S a miracle noticed that plants have sex the Radiolab podcast ; specifically the Smarty plants episode plant a!
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